WhAt, I’m jUsT aSkIng QuEsTiOnS.

Hate that.

Sealioning is a sort of evolution of JAQing off. It’s the JAQ coupled with feigned innocence and indignance when people actually stop putting up with BS.

Actually after thinking a bit deeper about it, it mirrors Socratic Questioning, but with the opposite intended end goal of muddying the waters instead of gaining clarity.

It’s related but it differs on the form. Concern trolling is derailing online discussions and debates by simulating concern over a seemingly valid counterpoint, making all participants waste time and effort arguing a previously settled matter, or pretending to just be playing devil’s advocate. Acting as if, although you support the cause or discussion at hand, you somehow still have some valid concerns to oppose.

Concern trolling is acting like you’re concerned about the consequences of something.

Like,

If we let people wear masks during COVID, we’ll see more bank robberies because masks are normalized!

Sea Lioning would be if I just kept asking you questions about why masks help, often while asking you to link sources. I don’t actually want to see any sources tho. I’m just going to keep asking new questions and for more sources until you get tired and stop replying.

Because the more time you waste on me, they less you help people who are genuinely asking for it. Plus when you stop replying, I can claim that as a victory because that must mean there aren’t any sources that agree with you.

I don’t think so. As far as I’m aware, concern trolling is an act to lower morale and place distrust among the opposing side. A person who’s on side B pretends to be on side A.

Let’s say you’re an admin on this site, and you have made a post asking for server donations.

Then just when all was going well, another member comes to the comments, who seems to support you and praise you really well at first. The rest of their comment is then telling everyone that they “appreciate your work”, but “you can’t handle it”, because this or that. Causing some of your genuine members to question you.

I’m on your side, so you should take my bullshit concerns seriously!

Concern trolling is “raising concerns” about certain issues that have little to no basis in reality and only serves to inject bigotry and bad ideas. For example, people were concerned about “the gays™” spreading their immoral gay AIDS virus all over innocent children during the 80s and into the 90s, only to learn that AIDS is spread through contact with broken mucosa membranes, which then shifted to “the gays™ are pedos” argument.

The “concerns” are nearly always disingenuous.

Thank you for this I had no idea what was going on.

But y’know, if someone walks up and makes disparaging racist remarks about how they don’t like your kind, following them round and demanding they explain themselves out loud is about the most appropriate response that exists.

I usually file that under “whataboutism”

Biden’s gas prices are so high. Worst president ever.

gas prices go down

mention that Biden should be congratulated for lowering prices if he was the cause for them going up

Yeah well… he’s still the worst for all these other reasons!

what do you mean by legitimate questions?

See this comment: lemmy.world/comment/1261631

It’s from a wondermark comic

Dealing with sealioning can be utterly exhausting (which is the point, whether they fully realize that or not) especially when done by someone with experience.

That’s interesting, do you have a link where I could read more about that?

Asking for proof isn’t necessarily trolling

This is correct; sealioning is characterised by asking questions in bad faith. If you ask a question, get an answer, and reply with the same question as though you did not get an answer, that is sealioning.

Personally, I always assume questions are asked in good faith and answer accordingly; it’s only when I get the same question in reply, or one that addresses precisely nothing I said, or one that egregiously twists my argument and/or words, that I view it as a troll and disengage.

I’d agree with you, but Marx literally calls for a temporary dictatorship of the proletariat in the communist manifesto

Agree totally. Communism is one of those things that cannot work in the real world. Someone above said it well - you go so far left that you end devolving into fascism and that is apparent with what is going on in Russia right now. Money begets power begets more money and on and on…

Yeah the dictatorship of the proletariat shouldn’t be thought of as like the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein but rather as forceful removal of hierarchy from society. “We will learn to live as equals no matter how difficult it is and those who refuse to join in the work will be punished.” If you’re just getting rid of the people who held power before the revolution and not fighting the desire for power you’re just gonna wind up with a red czar.

i’d figure tankies by strictest definition to be garden variety MLs, though yeah this typically includes support for mao.

my experience of trots has been old trade union guys trying to hawk papers/do book clubs linking everything somehow to permanent revolution, with a side of turning up to pickets. idk if i’d call them fanatical, they tend to spend too much time bickering about organisation amongst themselves. definitely agree with the weirdly nostalgic part though

That’s weird, here’s just the link without any formatting. Try this: wondermark.com/c/1k62/