I love diablo-likes, but they're also really annoying. - Lemmy.World
I’ve been playing the things since Diablo I; I love the concept and the gameplay
loop, but the game-design issues they run up against, and the mechanics that get
implemented to address them… irritate the crap out of me over time, and I want
to talk about that. I think the paradox at the core of it all is that the
gameplay loop is basically Stardew Valley in Doom clothing.
It’s not a hunting game, it’s a gathering game. Walk through this area, and
harvest all the objects. Explore every part of the map, rip up all the weeds,
look for hidden goodies under every fallen log. The satisfaction you feel
ripping through a wave of mobs isn’t the satisfaction from triumphantly pounding
your enemy’s skull into a pile of bloody ashes and limping away, it’s the
satisfaction you get from ripping off a really big crackly sheet of tree bark in
one go. You could probably reskin the whole thing into an apartment-cleaning
game and it would still work. And that would be fine in and of itself, but it
probably wouldn’t sell many copies - so they dress it up as Epic Monster Combat,
and that’s where the problems begin - layers and layers of obfuscation to hide
the seams. In order not to feel tedious and grindy, there needs to be a sense of
progression; your standard power-fantasy stuff, where the challenges increase,
you improve to meet them, rinse and repeat. In practice this equates to a
varying number of clicks-per-mob. You start out needing three clicks to defeat a
mob, over time you get better gear and go down to two clicks, level up and drop
to one click, and woah I’m so powerful. But oh no! A new area with bigger
scarier mobs! They take three clicks, even with my new powers! But of course
you’d see through that straight away, so they put numbers on everything. You see
bigger and bigger damage numbers as you level up, so it keeps feeling more
impressive. For a while, at least. But that only lasts so long before you start
to feel played for a chump, so slap on more and more layers to hide the lines,
and make little mini-metagames around navigating them. Trouble is, those
minigames really aren’t very fun. Scattering a dozen different stats and
resistances across half a dozen gear slots is just a box-packing game. You want
to get the best possible numbers for each attribute, but they’re clustered
randomly across all the different items, so you need to evaluate a butt-ton of
different combinations in order to get the best coverage. I’m guessing that’s
going to have some kind of shitty NP-hard algorithmic complexity, so you’re
basically doing the travelling salesman problem in your head. Wheee. (ok but
seriously this has to map to a named problem that someone’s analyzed already…
any ideas?) And hey look, there’s the insanely complicated perk tree of PoE, or
the similarly confusing devotions from Grim Dawn. Again it looks like they’re
confusing complexity with richness, and making optimization too confusing to do
without third-party tools or even less fun, following a published build. (for
god’s sake, if we’re going down that route, let us plug the final build in at
the start, then auto-level towards it) Item sets! Because there’s nothing like
grinding for weeks until your corneas dry out, filling up endless stash tabs
with partial sets that you’ll level out of before you ever complete; it’s so
much fun. Crafting recipes, same deal, and even worse, meta builds that rely on
unique items that are impossible to reliably SSF, so you spend your whole game
grinding for trade. And on and on, there’s so many symptomatic patches to delay
the eventual ennui, but no fixes to the fundamental design issue that causes it.
You can’t just take them away and replace them with nothing, or you’d be bored
in minutes. But building up to completely jaded after a couple of weeks once you
start playing the engine rather than the game is also pretty crappy. How do you
make the fighting feel like fighting instead of watering cauliflowers, or else
how do you make crop-harvesting feel badass? How do you create a sense of
progression beyond mere stat inflation? How do you do a rich slew of
possibilities without creating spaghetti hell that ends up only having six basic
metas at the end of it? How for the love of god do you make combat feel intense
without blanketing the entire screen in particle effects? Could someone design a
system where every build can be effective if you adapt your playstyle to suit? I
dunno, It just feels like the genre is still only half-invented, and waiting
around for someone to do it properly. Thoughts?
