Erebeon

Foundation Season 2 draws near, starts 14 July

https://lemmy.world/post/1048223

Foundation Season 2 draws near, starts 14 July - Lemmy.world

Personally I kinda liked the first season. It’s better if you forget the original Asimov story and just watch it as its own thing because it diverges from it quite a bit. Season 2 Full Trailer - Youtube [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t0BGkVQMuQ] Looking forward to see where they go after that ballsy season 1 ending. Lee Pace will continue to kill it no doubt. [https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/67223164-0487-45de-8d41-3dc92038173c.jpeg]

Jul 5, 2023 at 3:49amWeb
Show threadDrunemetonJul 5, 2023
I never read the original, but the series is quite engaging. Looking forward to S2!
Show threadFaceman🇦🇺Jul 5, 2023

I’ve read the whole series and absolutely love it, but I know that a direct adaptation would have been a failure.

I really enjoyed S1, they’ve taken some ideas from other Asimov universe series (namely, Robots) and combined it into a pretty fascinating alternate take on the foundation universe.

It’s visually stunning, has some great acting and direction and I’m really looking forward to S2

Show threadscarabicJul 5, 2023
“Aaand here’s episode 3, it’s 200 years later and all the characters you saw before are dead. Moving on!”
Show threadFaceDeerJul 5, 2023
I would have enjoyed it, but I can very much understand why it wasn't done that way. :)
Show threadscarabicJul 5, 2023
I think it’s just as much a problem when reading the books. But the problem is that a TV show must succeed with a popular audience, whereas a book can please a niche audience.
Show threadFaceDeerJul 6, 2023

Big-budget shows must succeed with a popular audience.

One of the nice things about the rapid improvements in special effects technology and AI is that I'm hoping smaller indy studios will start making more shows that are aimed at those niches. If you haven't spent a lot to make the show you can afford to appeal to a much smaller audience.

Show threadscarabicJul 6, 2023
Sure. But any TV show is big-budget compared to what it takes to produce a book. Books will always have more ability to cater to a weird little niche. Another reason to read more.
Show threadCorrosiveCapitalJul 16, 2023
More likely that the lives of vfx workers just continue to get less financially stable while having to have more skillets to cover more disciplines at once while “ai” is suppose to make up the difference according to their corporate overlords.
Show threadFaceman🇦🇺Jul 5, 2023
that’s pretty much how the main trilogy of books works too.
Show threadZanaJul 6, 2023
I've never heard of it before but I am gonna pick up the first book next week now.
Show threadFaceman🇦🇺Jul 6, 2023
Just keep in mind it is a pretty old book, and was originally a collection of short stories so it jumps around a bit.
Show threadSaintWackoJul 5, 2023
I agree! I enjoy it in the same way I enjoy the Hitchhiker’s Guide movie. Is it the same story? No. Is it still good? Absolutely
Show threadTaldenNZJul 5, 2023

Yeah. I’m not a fan of this “in name only” practice. And being a fan of the books, and the greater Asimov universe, I did struggle at first.

Once I accepted how completely they were going to abandon the original, I did manage to enjoy what they did produce. It wasn’t weaker so much as just a completely different beast.

Going into S2 with this expectation, if the quality is as high as in S1, it should be well worth a watch.

(I can’t say the same of Wheel of Time. The TV series is just weaker, it’s a mess, a bigger mess than the first book which definitely had its issues. Damn shame, I really was hoping for an attempt to stay closer to the source without Rafe ‘updating it’ for what he thinks Jordan would have written today)

Show threadSaintWackoJul 5, 2023
The worst was the Without Remorse movie. It wasn’t bad, bit it had almost nothing to do with the book it was supposedly based on
Show threadrussianagentJul 5, 2023
That episode with the middle emperor proving himself. Fucking amazing TV
Show thread15liam20Jul 5, 2023
I found that there were two stories, one with with emporers which was really compelling and another story with the Foundation which was really dull which is why I give it an overall rating of 5/10
Show threadFaceman🇦🇺Jul 5, 2023
I actually get the feeling this started out as a totally different series about an empire of clone rulers existing over millennia, and they struggled to sell it so they reworked it into a hodgepodge adaptation of bits from every major asimoverse book combined and time-shifted into one series.
Show threadSSTFJul 14, 2023
I get that feeling a lot. Season 1 of Star Trek Picard makes way more sense if you think it started out as some kind of Blade Runner fan fiction that was clumsily smashed into Star Trek.
Show threadSSTFJul 14, 2023
When Alexander Siddig (Dr. Bashir) showed up for like five minutes I was like “Wait no! Don’t go!” as his scene was ending.
Show threadJasSmithJul 5, 2023

I can’t believe how bad season 1 is. The only reason I didn’t stop watching was the emperor story line. Lee Pace killed it. Most of the actors are TERRIBLE. It was like watching wooden planks act. Instead of developing the story in any meaningful way, the directors chose to focus on disparate and dream-like sequences which appear to have little connection to each other.

This is science fiction of the worst kind. The source material is absolutely butchered. The dialogue is atrocious. The CGI is laughable. The accents are ridiculous. I don't know how I made it through the first season. What an absolute joke.

Show threadFaceDeerJul 5, 2023

Huh. I actually rather liked it, and the ways in which it "butchered" the source material were IMO the best parts.

Foundation was a great novel in its day, but it has not aged well and a modern adaptation in another medium is inherently going to require a bunch of changes.

Show threadBananaTrifleViolinJul 5, 2023

I have to admit I didn't enjoy the first series and didn't finish it. I found the series overwritten with a convoluted plot, and barely recognisable as an adaptation of the book series.

I'm also not a fan of a series that turns books that are grounded in science and believability into a story featuring people with magic abilities like precognition and magic powers. It rather misses the whole point of the books, and just felt silly.

Having said that I'm going to rewatch it and try and finish it, hoping I've misjudged it.

Show threadkorethJul 5, 2023

I’m also not a fan of a series that turns books that are grounded in science and believability into a story featuring people with magic abilities like precognition and magic powers.

For me, the “grounded in science” ship had already sailed by the end of the original trilogy, when

book spoilers

the Second Foundation was revealed to be a shadowy group of mind-manipulating telepaths.

Show threadstravanasuJul 14, 2023

I partly agree with your comment about the books. But there’s a curious historical element about that: at that time telepathy was really discussed in the mainstream scientific literature as a scientific possibility. Not in a crackpot way, but in a scientific way: theories were developed, tests and experiments made, and then it was concluded that it doesn’t exist, with explanations on the why.

Since it was a scientific possibility at that time, it was obviously used in science-based sci-fi books (not only Asimov’s).

It’s a little like they do in today’s sci-fi with “parallel universes” and similar stuff, which is discussed in the scientific literature. Maybe (or very probably, in my opinion) in 50 or 100 years they’ll laugh their arses off looking at our “science-based” sci-fi of today.

Show threadcwagnerJul 5, 2023
Thought the 1st season was pretty good, 7/10 normal rating, 9/10 IMDB-style rating. Never read the books (don’t know why), so that didn’t colour anything. Very excited to watch the new season, though I don’t even know when, our backlog is currently the final 3 episodes of BSG rewatch, Succession, From, Silo. Good thing it comes out weekly, that way there’s no rush to start it ;)
Show threadKarzaJul 5, 2023
@cwagner @Erebeon I must have missed the memo. what's the IMDb style rating?
Show threadcwagnerJul 5, 2023
7/10 when an average show is 5/10, 9/10 when the whole rating skews towards high values, on IMDB anything average gets 7-8 points.
Show threadFaceman🇦🇺Jul 5, 2023
imdb uses a weighting system, which tends to make a 5/10 average show a 7/10, it makes sense if you read their reasoning for the algorithm as it helps with de-weighting 1/10 and 10/10 ratings that are generally unfounded and reactionary rather than considered and accurate.
Show threadpglpmJul 5, 2023

Unfortunately I didn’t enjoy the 1st season, just like other commenters here. A preliminary reason could be that the story is very different from the book, which is one of my most favourite sci-fi books ever. But even simply seeing this series as something different from the book, if found it too cheap: the characters are half-stereotypes, the events are what you’d expect, usual blood and sex to attract viewers…

Should go without saying, just my personal opinion and tastes. I’m happy that others enjoyed the series and I hope it’ll made them curious to read the books.

Show threadJasSmithJul 5, 2023

I also loved the books and I think this might be the difference. It’s only very loosely based on the books. Those who seem to enjoy the show often haven’t read the books at all, or don’t have much of a connection with them.

I just wish Hollywood would stop butchering such amazing IP. They should create new IP if they have such disdain for the original content.

Show threadpglpmJul 5, 2023
I don’t quite understand why they do this with books. Maybe it’s because they have to, since many names and pieces obviously refer to the book. Or maybe they do it to attract people who have read the books.
Show threadKarzaJul 5, 2023

@pglpm @JasSmith I reckon it's three things:

1. Using the IP name is free marketing
2. For better or worse, creatives want to put their own spin on the source material.
3. In some cases, the difference in medium actively forces major changes in adaptation.

Show threadWhoRogerJul 5, 2023

It’s not really free tho, since IP rights cost a ton of money. And honestly, adaptations that aren’t true to the source don’t tend to do well, at least not beyond the first product.

It used to be the case that studios could buy IP rights for peanuts and make a cheap knockoff, but that’s not the case anymore.

Show threadKarzaJul 5, 2023
@WhoRoger free was wrong phrasing. I meant that it was a way to sidestep the lack of familiarity that stops people from trying new media. People will give Spiderman xyzabc a shot rather than try out a completely unknown IP. In a congested streaming economy, that advantage is worth quite a bit.
Show threadWhoRogerJul 5, 2023

Sure, but the costs of IP can significantly eat into the profits, and if the studio bungles the adaptation, then it’s just wasted money.

Scifi is a particularly tricky genre to produce, there’s almost no high-profile TV show that hasn’t been botched, cancelled or otherwise messed with.

But scifi is still mostly for geeks and probably always will be, and they are a tricky audience that doesn’t appreciate if their classic gets destroyed.

On the other hand, lots of completely original properties have become classics.

So I’d say in this environment, buying an expensive, geeky property and then not using it properly, simply doesn’t even lead to easy money anymore.

So what’s the point then, just to piss of people? Honestly it often feels like it.

Show threadFaceDeerJul 5, 2023

I read the books (the first one anyway) and it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the series significantly, IMO. I recognize that they're very different mediums and written in very different contexts, so it's fine for them both to be their own things.

An analogous case that I think is probably quite similar to this was "I, Robot." The short story collection was classic and I enjoyed much of them, and the Will Smith "adaptation" was extremely different. But The Will Smith movie's story was still an exploration of the Asimovian three laws and so IMO was worthy of being included in the "anthology." I thought it was a good movie.

Generally speaking, books make for poor movie scripts and vice versa. The best adaptations require a lot of changes. The only prominent counterexample that comes to mind is Lord of the Rings, and even that one garnered a lot of complaints about the bits that were cut or tweaked.

Show threadniktemadurJul 5, 2023

I love the books. I’ve read the original trilogy three times, as well as heard the BBC radio dramatization (from the 1970s). My anticipation for this series was sky-high.

Halfway through Season One I stopped watching, baffled in an uninterested way about how they dropped everything that had the original Foundation spirit, I recognized the names of most characters and some planets, but everything in between was crammed with Goyer’s self-important posturing, insistence on mystery boxes and artificial cliffhangers.

The books will live on, they are immortal. The series, not so much, it will age quickly and badly.
Thank God we also have Villeneuve and Dune right now.

Show threadpglpmJul 5, 2023
Agree 200%!
Show threadlittleblue✨Jul 5, 2023
Honestly, I’m just rewatching The Expanse (6th time) instead. 🤌🏼
Show threadSSTFJul 14, 2023

The only parts of the show I enjoyed was the segments about the Emperor(s), which was a completely new invention of the show. It felt like somehow the writing A-team had snuck off to make some kind of weird original scifi thing, while the B-team was writing the “main” Foundation centered plot.

Putting aside any love for the books, I found the Foundation sections to be bad on their own terms. I stopped watching when the gang did a Call Of Duty mission into a ghost ship.

Show threadIrvJul 5, 2023
I’m surprised by the pushback (although I haven’t read the books and thus did not have any preconceived notions). I loved season 1 and have watched it multiple times. I love shows that builds a world, and this one does so epically. I also am intrigued by the immense time scales involved. I also thought the pacing of the mysteries introduced was very good (I’ve been a bit disappointed in Silo for that reason). Anyway, I can’t wait for season 2!
Show threadRufusLoackerJul 5, 2023

I’m not going to shit on your excitement, I just want to give my perspective (and I liked the show!).

You’re right, this is a series that “builds a world”. The main grip I (as many others) have, in relation to the books, is that the books build a universe and a whole history, in addition to the series. The characters themselves, aside from Hari Seldon and a couple of others, are relatively unimportant, and that’s the beauty of it: it’s a way of showing how psychohistory works, by not focusing on the individual but the whole society around them.

This, of course, is quite difficult to translate to screen, but having one character being “the special one” goes really against the whole spirit of the worldbuilding set in the books (and that’s why I’m quite interested in seeing how they portray The Mule). The gender and ethnicity changes I couldn’t care less, but these kind of things… eh, they strip the story of what made it special in the first place.

Show threadessteeyouJul 5, 2023
I’ve been waiting for this for what feels like years.
Show threadzefiaxJul 6, 2023
Ya it was student from the books but I think the changes were necessary. In the books, we get a whole new set of characters every 30 pages or so. It wouldn’t work for tv where shows are often character driven. As someone who lives the books, I enjoyed the show adaptation and the changes made.
Show threadTooLJul 6, 2023

I honestly could not make it through the first... 4 or 5 episodes. Didn't help that I had just reread the series prior to watching and it honestly felt like they went out of their way to completely shit all over the source material.

Idk maybe I'll try watching it again one day.

Show threadhoges25Jul 6, 2023

I’ll wait to see feedback before watching season 2. The empire storyline was fantastic, the scenery incredible and adding diversity and changing genders absolutely needed to happen to make it work for tv. But the whole magic thing, everyone being special and dull storylines killed it. The whole point of Mayor Hardin was that “violence is the last refuge of the incompetent”. So for tv they decide to have her wield a gun for nearly every scene and when that doesn’t work it isn’t intelligence that gets her through its magic precognition. They even reference the quote specifically as if to mock anyone who has read the book.

So instead of having a strong, intelligent, nuanced female lead that would have been incredible viewing (particularly given current events with Ukraine and how intelligence can overcome violence), we have a dull, monotone magician who gets by on girl and gun power. The character and actor deserved so much more than what was delivered.