Mastodawn

SalsaGal Jul 4, 2023

KDE:

Microsoft has blatantly copied us in Windows 11, and as a result, people are starting to see Plasma as a cheap clone of Windows again. (...) Making the panel float by default provides an immediate visual differentiation from Windows 11 and we hope this will help jolt users’ brains out of “ew, it’s slightly different from Windows 11” mode and into “wow, this is new and cool and I wonder what’s in it” mode.

https://pointieststick.com/2023/05/11/plasma-6-better-defaults/

Microsoft:

Microsoft is preparing to launch Windows 12 (...) with several new design ideas, including a new desktop experience with a ‘floating’ taskbar. Microsoft wants to create a floating effect for the taskbar by separating it from the desktop and rounding off the edges.

https://www.windowslatest.com/2023/07/02/windows-12-microsoft-quietly-hints-at-next-gen-windows/

💀

Plasma 6: “Better defaults”

The 2023 Plasma sprint is now finished! KDE Patron Tuxedo Computers were kind enough to open their offices to us for a full week to do the sprint. We had some great conversations with Tuxedo employ…

Adventures in Linux and KDE

thanks @lerothas for sharing, this is incredibly sad and also funny

Vel -> akko.wtf Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo I'm really not into floating panel by default

@Velveteen I'm sure KDE will let you turn it off... Windows, who knows 🙈

ZeeTiger Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo @Velveteen I'm sure Microsoft will tuck away the option to turn it off behind some concealed setting that's only available in the "Pro" edition

Elias Probst Jul 5, 2023

@ZeeTiger as a registry-hack for OEMs and system integrators…
@tendstofortytwo @Velveteen

Surya Teja K Sep 27, 2023

@ZeeTiger @tendstofortytwo @Velveteen *regedit hack or powershell magic incoming*

PJB Jul 4, 2023

@Velveteen @tendstofortytwo yeah, as somebody who has their windows maximized all the time this would definitely annoy the hell out of me, it just looks awkward.

I know KDE will make it trivial to customize, but it's still a meh default.

PJB Jul 4, 2023

@Velveteen @tendstofortytwo *that said*, if they make maximized windows look consistent with the dock it would look absolutely sexy I think. That means same margin and matching rounded corners. Gives you a peek through of the desktop background on all sides and looks slick and consistent.

(the rounded corners would need to be the much-hated Windows 11 ones where they clip the window content even with custom window decorations. That's gonna be a tough pillow to swallow. I can dream though) #KDE

#RIPYassie Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo honestly, I appreciate the copying in both directions. KDE and Windows are similar enough that I can dual boot and not have to adjust anything. Even obscure keyboard shortcuts are the same! There's definitely inspiration flowing both ways there and I hope KDE isn't making any decisions just to differentiate from Windows.

@andyy that's fair, and I guess the similarity does help a lot in funneling people over to Linux. that said, I can totally understand not wanting to see the thing you've worked on so hard trying to make a good user experience being immediately written off as a cheap clone of someone else

#RIPYassie Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo the perception thing is definitely a problem but not enough to hamper adoption.

Also, KDE is a Free clone (I know it's not a clone. Don't @ me!) which is way better.

@andyy I hope so!

kaukamieli Jul 4, 2023

@andyy
Copying features is one thing. Copying the looks is another. They can pay their designers to do some original work.
@tendstofortytwo

maddie (MOVED!)

@tendstofortytwo i wonder if they're trying to EEE KDE for some reason

Matti Redsky Jul 4, 2023

@[email protected] @tendstofortytwo Probably. KDE is the most windows-like desktop environment that Linux has. I know some people have even successfully tricked their elderly parents onto Linux using KDE.

maddie (MOVED!)

@MattiRedsky @tendstofortytwo it still feels kind of strange to try and kill KDE of all things, i feel like GNOME would make more sense to try and take down considering it's the most used desktop environment

genstar.service Jul 4, 2023

@mjdxp
@MattiRedsky @tendstofortytwo That's Apple's job.

pollinator stan Jul 4, 2023

@mjdxp @MattiRedsky @tendstofortytwo GNOME is too visually similar to OS X, imho. for microsoft, ripping off FOSS devs is effectively consequence-free but looking somewhat similar to apple’s products means litigation

that’s our guess, anyway

@[email protected] @MattiRedsky @tendstofortytwo microsoft trying to copy gnome would probably go about as well as them trying to rerelease windows 8

Shnowdenz Shecretz Jul 5, 2023

@mjdxp @MattiRedsky @tendstofortytwo I mean... GNOME can't successfully pull off being GNOME. Do you really think Microsoft can?

Kate 🏳️‍⚧️Jul 5, 2023

@mjdxp @MattiRedsky @tendstofortytwo according to https://www.gamingonlinux.com/users/statistics/#DesktopEnvironment-top kde plasma is more widely used than gnome. sadly the sample size is not that huge and the steam deck with it's kde plasma interface probably has an effect here since the stats are from @gamingonlinux, so pretty focused on gaming. i wasn't able to find any other source with a bigger sample size or without the gaming bias

User stats | GamingOnLinux

Statistics generated from the users of the GamingOnLinux website

GamingOnLinux

Kate 🏳️‍⚧️Jul 5, 2023

@mjdxp @MattiRedsky @tendstofortytwo @gamingonlinux hey @ThePlant would it be possible to have another category like kde/steam for steam deck users? then it would be easier to distinguish the cases

maddie (MOVED!)

@tendstofortytwo also tbh i'm really not a big fan of this idea, i guess it looks nice but it means the start menu button isn't going to be in the bottom left corner, which is very easy to move to and click without thinking about it, i'm sure they aren't gonna bother to remove the windows 10 taskbar again so i guess it doesn't really matter to me

Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo Windows 12: The Deepin Ripoff?

Cyber Yuki Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo

Mammon slept. And the beast reborn spread over the earth and its numbers grew legion. And they proclaimed the times and sacrificed crops unto the fire, with the cunning of foxes. And they built a new world in their own image as promised by the sacred words, and spoke of the beast with their children. Mammon awoke, and lo! it was naught but a follower.

from The Book of Mozilla, 11:9

@tendstofortytwo i love innovation

MOVING Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo Windows legal department: Well, their license allowed us to copy their homework.

Arian Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo from personal experience I find that kde isn't much touchpad or laptop friendly as gnome. Is it really the case or I haven't fully grasped its concepts?

@arian4n they're working on it, I think - it's already much better in Wayland, though in my experience you're right, GNOME is still ahead in that regard. that's actually the one thing that keeps me on GNOME over KDE on my main laptop 😅

Quinten Jul 5, 2023

@tendstofortytwo @arian4n I use KDE on my laptop and it's pretty good. Touchpad gestures are slightly worse than Gnome (e.g. the overview is 4-finger pinch??) but I think the new overview planned for Plasma 6 will be a big improvement.

Gestures also only work on Wayland (just like on Gnome), and KDE has some weird bugs on Wayland although it's pretty good overall. You can find a list of Plasma Wayland bugs at https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Wayland_Showstoppers, as you can see there's it's mostly annoyances at this point.

Plasma/Wayland Showstoppers - KDE Community Wiki

bdf2121cc3334b35b6ecda66e471 Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo Microsoft is exploring the possibility of copying all of KDE's ideas again

kaukamieli Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo
I loved the video where people were trying plasma 5 I think and they were told it was the new windows. :P
@rolle

Benjamin Eunice Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo I've always found that so excessively frustrating when everyone I know acts like Linux projects are playing catchup to Windows when it is quite literally the opposite, particularly with KDE.

anemone Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo everyone just needs to admit Apple got it right and embrace the dock

fmmaks Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo Shows that Microsoft is only cares about telemetry and not UI/UX. When Plasma 6 will release people will continue calling it 'cheap w1nd0w5 clone'...... That's just so sad

Half Cocked Law Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo Bill Gates: "Good artists copy, great artists steal."
Balmer: "Who said that?"
Gates: "I don't know, some artist."

Best line of Pirates of Silicon Valley

mirabilos Jul 4, 2023

@tendstofortytwo eh KDE 3 was the last one to actually look good

@tendstofortytwo can't wait for all the

users to immediately make their desktop look exactly like

12!

Ahri Boy (backup)Jul 5, 2023

@tendstofortytwo GNOME and Android tablet home screen inspire each other.

uwu1ba Jul 5, 2023

@tendstofortytwo KDE actually never looked like a Windows. The ideas KDE had for design was always lying on the surface of that time. But everyone were saying that KDE copies Microsoft design.

nightquick Jul 5, 2023

@tendstofortytwo I'm rather confused with these two statements

@nightquick KDE said Windows 11 copied their style so they'd do something to differentiate themselves from Windows, and then rumors started showing up that Windows 12 would do the same thing

nightquick Jul 5, 2023

@tendstofortytwo that's an interesting claim from KDE. To me it seems Microsoft didn't copy but KDE was like for a long, (clone with themes). Without some solid proofs KDE claim is kinda weird.

@nightquick it may be a more recent thing, not old theming stuff. I'd recommend reading the blog post I linked, that explains their side in more detail

@tendstofortytwo apropos of literally nothing but does the guy in the second image look strikingly like jerma to anyone else

@jj w-what guy, what second image 😨

Jos noemt het gewoon melk Jul 26, 2023

@tendstofortytwo @jj
In the article linked in the first toot of this composition.

Reto Jul 5, 2023

@tendstofortytwo I don't understand why UI designers constantly feel the need to rework stuff that works, the taskbar is fine as is, it doesn't need to be floating. It needs to be visually non disturbing and make me see at a glance what is open and allow me to switch there.

Go and actually fix the broken stuff please, leave the good things alone 🙃

Reiner Jung 🇬🇱 🇺🇦 🇪🇺Jul 5, 2023

@tendstofortytwo Well you have at least two advantages. (a) a logical structured settings tool (b) consistent directory structure for the user. Also all Linuxes have a way better package management that Windows even with flatpack and snap.

@tendstofortytwo tbh as mainly a Windows user... I just want my taskbar to remain as is. I don't know who MS appeals to with changes to it, but everytime MS changes something on the task bar first I do is go to taskbar settings and turn it back to behave like Win 7.

And when I use a GUI Linux I also just want a good old Win XP or 7 style taskbar 😅

Christian von Schack 🇳🇴Jul 5, 2023

@tendstofortytwo The best part is that most Windows users will hate this.

Jos noemt het gewoon melk Jul 26, 2023

@cschack @tendstofortytwo
I will.
Will hate it in KDE as well though. Bring different just for the sake of being different is a poor choice.

kira :3 Jul 5, 2023

@tendstofortytwo ...how the fuck are they already preparing to launch windows 12 lmao, was 11 that much of a vista? (i mean for me it was but like, for the rest of the market)

@chrisisgr8 something something every other version of windows sucks

pax Jul 5, 2023

@tendstofortytwo Linux sucks for blind people, no matter what.

@pax I hope they can improve that soon :( iirc the linked article talks about accessibility improvements in KDE too

pax Jul 5, 2023

@tendstofortytwo they would need to rewrite whole accessibility stack.
as it's buggy and causes crashes.
I would rather use dos than linux, in it's current form.

datenwolf Jul 5, 2023

@tendstofortytwo my 2 cents on this: As long as desktop environments all are designed around the "panel / switcher / application area" paradigm, there's very little differentiation possible.

To be really set apart the basic paradigm by which users experience their interaction environment must change. And you can't do that with a mere graphical redesign.