Mastodawn

Miss_Aranel Jul 4, 2023

Darnell Clayton

Threads by Instagram will launch on July 6th (thanks for the heads up @dansup!) & I noticed Meta collects a lot of data. So much data!

Threads is rumored to adopt ActivityPub later on (in October maybe‽ We will see), but when it joins the Fediverse (if not on launch day), it’s data collection policies will make it easier to convince some (but not all) to migrate over to Misskey, Pixelfed, Mastodon & Pleroma.

Note: Uploading on Misskey as my Mastodon account @darnell is being fixed server side right now.

#Threads #Instagram #Meta #Facebook #Misskey #Pixelfed #Mastodon #Pleroma

JohnW Jul 4, 2023

@darnell @darnell @dansup

I'm not completely sure how to sort this. I'm a techie but on the front end side. Are they able to pull in this data from instances federated with them and from users who respond/comment on Threads?

I'm not sure how big I can type HELL NO if that's the case.

Darnell Clayton

@the_Effekt @darnell @dansup #Meta does not need to subscribe or follow you to pull data from your instance. They can easily pull info via API’s, RSS feeds of simple scraping of your site.

I believe #Google is already doing this, & it would not surprise me if #Facebook is as well.

The question folks are asking is “Will #Threads future timeline launch with ads‽ Will #Fediverse followers of Thread accounts see those ads‽”

We will find out soon.

JohnW Jul 4, 2023

@darnell @darnell @dansup

Thank you for explaining. It sounds like it's pretty much anything goes for them.

As far as ads, I sincerely hope not. That would be particularly invasive of them if they tried that.

The Nexus of Privacy Jul 4, 2023

@darnell @darnell Agreed that people are asking about ads ... although the question folks *aren't* asking is what about promoted posts (which aren't necessarily ads) and how that'll affect fediverse followers and timelines. We shall see.

In terms of Meta having other ways to get the data, yes, but those could largely be blocked or reduced (and I expect will be by instances that don't federate with Meta). Agreed that Google's also doing this, and I'm sure various bad actors are as well, so reducing this is a good thing in general. I'm working on a more detailed analysis of these various ways of getting at the data, I'll let you know once a draft is ready.

@dansup
@the_Effekt

Jérôme Jul 4, 2023

@thenexusofprivacy RSS is open to everyone. It’s really not hard to scrape the whole fediverse and many are doing it already. Having a federated server isn’t really changing anything. You’ll have to let us know how you think this can be blocked without shutting down every ways for people to find you (which is what Elon just learned this week by putting a login screen in front of everything and rate limit). Surely we don’t want to do the same that Elon tried and failed?

The Nexus of Privacy Jul 4, 2023

@jerome And agreed that the approach of turning everything off only works for instances and people that want to keep a very low profile, but that's not the case in general. The Mastodon option that disables public access to the site even breaks the About page so it's useless. But, it's not all-or-nothing. Straightforward improvements can really cut down on the scraping and other ways of accessing data.

It's true that many are scraping the whole fediverse already, one of the interesting things about looking at Meta as a threat actor is that mitigations that stop them also stop other threats.

Warren McDonald Jul 4, 2023

@the_Effekt @darnell @darnell @dansup

One of the issues is that they can't pre-categorise the content they may access, as it is user supplied. So that have to say to say it may include the highest levels of Health, Financial and Sensitive.

Norobiik @[email protected]Jul 4, 2023

@darnell @darnell @dansup I read somewhere that there are a ton of #birdsite users who also use Instagram. Fast forwarding the rollout of #threads (original timeline was end July) clearly targets Elon's userbase .

Just my opinion, I don't think the tidal wave people here are expecting from #Meta's shores will arrive anytime soon. The #Fediverse will have a very complicated relationship with Zuck's new baby for sure but it won't be the doomsday scenario people are expecting.

Epiphanic Synchronicity Jul 4, 2023

@darnell @darnell @dansup The thing Musk is turning Twitter into deserves to go the way of MySpace, but I hate the idea that Meta could take that segment of social media over, too, along with Facebook and Instagram. If we had responsible, muscular antitrust enforcement, that would all be broken up into separate entities to maintain competition.

@darnell @darnell @dansup

Look at all that personal info they will be collecting. #Threads is owned by #Instagram, which is in turn owned by #Facebook's parent company, #Meta. See where this is going?

John M Flores Jul 4, 2023

@iuculano @darnell @darnell @dansup I don't think that's #Meta 's motivation, actually; the #Fediverse universe is just a drop in their giant data bucket.

Not defending them. They have other objectives

@JohnMFlores @darnell @darnell @dansup

And until now, we have no clue as to what they are. Just the fact they seek so much data off us is what I find off-putting

Darnell Clayton

@JohnMFlores @iuculano @darnell @dansup #Meta is an advertising company. My take is they view the #Fediverse the same way #Google viewed blogs back in the day: a great place to put ads upon.

I know some instances are already setup to “host” ads on the browser side (#Mastodon & #Misskey) but most people do not activate that. I believe that is #Facebook’s end goal here, which is to use #Threads by #Instagram to sell more ads.

John M Flores Jul 4, 2023

@darnell @iuculano @darnell @dansup I use the #Meta Ads Manager daily. 12 Mil Mastodon users is a drop in the bucket for them. #Threads won't be successful unless it has ten times that.

Darnell Clayton

@JohnMFlores @iuculano @darnell @dansup It’s not the #Fediverse as it currently is that #Meta is after. It’s the future Fediverse that will appear after #Threads launches. We might see hundreds of millions (if not billions) of sites embrace #ActivityPub by the end of 2025. Meta wants to be the dominant power of that future, or at least be ahead of #Google.

John M Flores Jul 4, 2023

@darnell @iuculano @darnell @dansup the risk is that a #Fediverse that #meta controls will be a consumer data and ad platform. In other words, not the Fediverse that we currently have.

maegul Jul 4, 2023

@JohnMFlores @darnell @iuculano @darnell @dansup

"The Fediverse that we currently have" isn't one thing though ... meta can just make their own meta-fediverse.

IE all of the "current fediverse" could stay exactly as it is while meta establishes a big-corp ad-friendly beachhead on the AP protocol that eclipses the "current fediverse" in size.

It's in the nature of it being based on a protocol, and diversity and choice and sub-networks are kinda the point ... right?

John M Flores Jul 4, 2023

@maegul @darnell @iuculano @darnell @dansup true but the current #Fediverse has not reached critical mass to sustain interesting discussions in smaller, niche topics. #Threads will hijack the Fediverse growth trajectory, potentially thwarting its path towards critical mass.

Catchingmybreath Jul 4, 2023

@darnell @darnell @dansup

Tito Ciuro Jul 4, 2023

@darnell @maegul @dansup @darnell Surprised?! Isn’t that par for the course? I’m actually surprised that blood and urine samples aren’t part of the list.

@darnell @darnell @dansup Twitter also asks for similar access and if I'm not mistaken most of the permissions are opt in.