Jeff GeerlingJun 26, 2023

Red Hat's response: https://redhat.com/en/blog/red-hats-commitment-open-source-response-gitcentosorg-changes

So... it *was* all about the "freeloaders". Can people stop telling me that this whole thing wasn't about freeloaders now? #redhat #opensource

Red Hat’s commitment to open source: A response to the git.centos.org changes

More about Red Hat's decision to make CentOS Stream the primary repository for RHEL sources.

NilsJun 27, 2023
Show threadJeff Geerling

Red Hat: those who use open source code and don't contribute back are "a real threat to open source companies everywhere"

I call them: users.

I fight for the users.

Jun 26, 2023 at 8:12pmWeb
Show thread@[email protected]Jun 26, 2023
@geerlingguy As a former support at Red Hat, I can tell you for a fact I had seen people indicate they were running CentOS (before Stream obviously) and there was a bug that was coming from RHEL. This customer was a Red Hat customer, but they didn't want to run RHEL everywhere because it was a PITA so they were testing on CentOS.

The fact that Red Hat is saying they don't get anything from downstream is bullshit. So this guy either doesn't know, or he's fucking lieing.
Show threadRassilonian LegateJun 26, 2023
@geerlingguy
How are you going to get people to contribute back if they aren't first users? Sure not everyone will, but if you don't let them be users first no one will
Show threadCaffinated Jun 26, 2023

@RassilonianLegate @geerlingguy

Use Fedora or CentOS stream, both of which are upstream of RHEL?

Show threadchriszanfJun 26, 2023

@RassilonianLegate @geerlingguy

Its like dogs with sticks that are "No take, just throw"

Show threadAlistair BuxtonJun 27, 2023

@RassilonianLegate @geerlingguy

It is a difficult balance to get right. If you always put developers before users then you won't ever get any new developers. But if you always put users before developers, then all your existing developers will leave.

This does not apply to Red Hat though. They can simply hire the developers they need. They do not need people to contribute fixes. They need people to pay for RHEL.

Show threadDan BrownJun 26, 2023

@geerlingguy They also don't understand that giving back can be more than contributing directly one step upstream.

With Rocky and Alma I can quickly spin up an LXC container on proxmox to help support RHEL users of my software. They help build up the wider ecosystem around the OS, and encourage folks to get involved in the RHEL world.

Show threadDr. Dek πŸ‘¨β€πŸš€πŸ§πŸš€ )Jun 26, 2023
@geerlingguy
Well, they were freeloading off your work, now you are both even. And everyone else has lost something.
Show threadDavid HonessJun 26, 2023
@geerlingguy we're going after the MCP! ✊
Show threadRihards OlupsJun 26, 2023
@geerlingguy Could this be related to Oracle, again?
Show threadMarkJun 26, 2023
@geerlingguy you mean filthy users
Show threadAnderson SilvaJun 26, 2023
@geerlingguy
Show threadmav Jun 27, 2023

@geerlingguy 10/10, no notes.

I can't get my head around, especially, the whole "sure, we'll give you the source, but you're literally only allowed to keep it if you do the ONE THING OPEN SOURCE IS SUPPOSED TO ALLOW YOU TO DO"

Show threadSophieJun 27, 2023

@geerlingguy Thanks!

And if Red Hat wants people to contribute, they should perhaps investigate why people don't and which barriers there are.

Show threadmathewJun 28, 2023
@labellaragassa @geerlingguy Well for starters, you can't simply report a bug to RedHat unless you have an expensive support contract. That killed my desire to contribute.
Show threadTomSeppertJun 27, 2023
@geerlingguy
I was about to get started with Ansible and buy your book but I'm really getting second thoughts now about Ansible...
I guess a small example on how they are hurting the whole community by their decisions.
Show threadChris. You know. That one.Jun 27, 2023
@geerlingguy "Those who don't add value to the products we sell back to them are a real threat to open source companies that sell open source."
Show threadTathar is dragons! Ξ˜Ξ”Jun 27, 2023

@geerlingguy

If we don't have a GPL version or variant that can put a stop to RH, then we should get one.

Show threadwesruvJun 27, 2023

@geerlingguy

Oooooof, where "open source" == "muh profits".

What an ignorant take. If RHEL was known for being more user friendly it'd turn more users into subscribers.

Instead they want to go the "I just got muh MBA" route of creating new profit opportunities by killing community support.

I hope they learn before they do too much damage.

Show threadwesruvJun 27, 2023

@geerlingguy this whole thing reminds of the bad DRM on Adobe products, movies, and video games.

Adding barriers and cost to good actors to try and get at the bad actors, and I think the end result will be bad for Red Hat.

Show threadLuke DaryJun 27, 2023
@geerlingguy it is interesting that people seem to be avoiding or manipulating the entire quote to suit their purposes, "Simply rebuilding code, without adding value or changing it in any way, represents a real threat to open source companies everywhere." No ill will towards users or the community, just wanting people to not profit off work they are doing nothing to support.
Show threadJeff GeerlingJun 27, 2023

@lukedary Rebuilding code does add value. It validates the code can be built. Further, redistributing adds TONS of value in the community.

Mike clarified on LinkedIn that he should've been more specific: it doesn't add "enough value" that Red Hat can continue doing it.

Even though Red Hat promised the git sources would remain up after the initial Stream debacle.

Show threadleah's tiny pc retirement homeJun 27, 2023
@geerlingguy @lukedary once again demonstrating that a corporate promise and three bucks won't get you a cup of coffee
Show threadLuke DaryJun 28, 2023
@geerlingguy I'm not asking for acceptance of the decision just calling out unnecessary FUD directed at Red Hat when I see it.
Show threadJeff GeerlingJun 28, 2023

@lukedary I think the intention of that line was not kind.

It seems to indicate that Rocky and Alma provide no value to the Red Hat ecosystem, when in fact, they did. An extraordinary amount. Which I think is patently obvious at this point.

Show threadLuke DaryJun 28, 2023
@geerlingguy I am just trying to keep the discourse honest. There were no statements in the blog that should make people think that Mike was saying users of open source who don't contribute are a threat to open source as was claimed. To imply otherwise, with a misquote or partial quote out of context is dishonest.
Show threadDan BrownJun 28, 2023
@lukedary @geerlingguy that depends if you think those that "Simply rebuilding code, without adding value or changing it in any way" are considered users or not, which is kind of the point being made here by Jeff.
Show threadLuke DaryJun 28, 2023
@danb @geerlingguy that is the point being made now, after the fact, but his original intention was not that or he would've used the entire quote.
Show threadflere-imsaho πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦Jun 28, 2023
@lukedary mate, never shill for your employer. your employer won't reciprocate, and you'll be left with naked arse and no dignity.
Show threadLuke DaryJun 28, 2023
@mawhrin I promise I'm not a shill. I have my own opinions about the decision. I'd just love to see more civility and less vitriol in open source.
Show threadGerardo LisboaOct 6, 2023

@geerlingguy

Firstly, #OpenSource only wants to be used.