Mastodawn

stux⚡️Jun 18, 2023

[2/2]

People have asked me to 'preblock' this project but I am not gonna.

Meta is not Gab so we give them a chance and can always block them later with 2 simple button clicks..

We would never ever sell out on you but rather invest time to make this all go smooth without everything come crashing down

I hope this clears up some mis-understandings

Augusto Jun 18, 2023

@stux I just don't like how "Meta is not Gab" sounds a little too much like "this dragon is LESS BAD" to me. I don't want any dragons in my home.

stux⚡️Jun 18, 2023

@The_Augusto Well yeah it is

We know Meta

But we dont know their new platform so

Oblomov Jun 18, 2023

@stux @The_Augusto we know they have a horrid track record on privacy, they have a horrid track record on moderation, and they have a horrid track record on “embracing” open protocols to kill them off. Each of this alone would be sufficient to preemptively defederate. All of them together even more so. Exactly what do you expect to be different this time?

LiemPong_pagong Jun 19, 2023

@oblomov @stux @The_Augusto

Maybe there is already an exchange of $$$ happening behind the scenes.

Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑Jun 19, 2023

@oblomov @stux @The_Augusto if I didn't know any better... a lot of these people talk like they've been literally bribed.

Ariaflame Jun 19, 2023

@WhyNotZoidberg @oblomov @stux @The_Augusto It's interesting the people who are allowing even the possibility to cause division.

Creative! Queer!! Autistic!!!Jun 20, 2023

@WhyNotZoidberg @oblomov @stux @The_Augusto

@oblomov @stux @The_Augusto Yes. But. Which of those those bad things is prevented by defederating?

@BenAveling @stux @The_Augusto

At lest the last 2 out of 3, and 1st is made not any easier.

But again the question that the “wait and see” camp never replies to is: what information do you have to expect that it won't be a shitshow, given the company's track record?

@stux @The_Augusto @oblomov how does blocking them improve their migration?
How does it prevent them adding features?

@BenAveling @stux @The_Augusto deflection again! The question is very simple yet receives no answer: what information do you have that this time will be different than their abysmal track record on privacy, moderation, and open protocol busting, to justify a “wait and see” approach?

@oblomov @stux @The_Augusto If you want to block them, by all means, block them. Just don't kid yourself that it achieves any of the things you want it to achieve.

@BenAveling @stux @The_Augusto you still haven't answered the question

@[email protected] @stux @The_Augusto I've answered the question to my own complete satisfaction. If the answer doesn't satisfy you, you know where the block button is.

JustNate Jun 18, 2023

@stux @The_Augusto
This sounds willfully obtuse

Jaime Herazo Jun 19, 2023

@stux
And *BECAUSE* we already *KNOW* Meta we don't want their grubby greedy hands near us, do not become a facilitator.
@The_Augusto

Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑Jun 19, 2023

@stux @The_Augusto this is the most naive thing I have heard since pre 2016.

Sentient Mortal Jun 19, 2023

@stux @The_Augusto You know they want to kill us off, but because you don't know how yet you're inviting them in?

Ariaflame Jun 19, 2023

@sentientmortal @stux @The_Augusto They don't need an invite. The fediverse is open source.

Fancy Sandwiches Jun 19, 2023

@stux @The_Augusto "We know Dan is a repeated abuser, however Dan is now wearing a new leather jacket, so maybe he doesn't abuse people anymore, we should wait and see"

Great logic, 10/10,

Hey now!

@aearo No offense to actual dragons, obviously.

Thank you.

@The_Augusto @stux meta is not gab

meta is not as bad as gab

meta is much, much worse than gab

Mackaj Jun 19, 2023

@The_Augusto

Thankfully you have the functionality at your fingertips to slam the door shut on those dragons any time you want. So does everyone else, but that is *their* choice to make.

As you can probably guess I'm strongly against admins defederating other instances wholesale and taking the freedom/choice away from their users. Unless it's to counter something that's illegal or promotes hate or prejudice.

@stux but we still don't know who they met and what was discussed. NDA was a bad idea to begin with.

There are about 3 million active users of the fediverse and billion dollar company targeted, what five, six, ten individuals?

ana ♀️🇵🇸Jun 19, 2023

@fedi what's NDA

alteropen Jun 19, 2023

@ana @fedi non disclosure agreement basically companies have you sign it to stop you talkinh about trade secrets or anything else, allows prosecution if you break it

ana ♀️🇵🇸Jun 19, 2023

@alteropen @fedi thank you!

AnneTheWriter Jun 19, 2023

@ana @fedi

"Non Disclosure Agreement." It's a contract that (mostly corporations & rich people) have you sign so you can't disclose the contents of any conversation they might have with you about a given topic.

#NDAs are incredibly helpful when developing a new product and trying to beat the competition to market, but are also incredibly helpful when trying to silence critical voices or trying to be sneaky about something.

clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛Feb 2

In case anyone drops in two years later and is also wondering, just like @ana was:

An NDA is a Non-Disclosure Agreement, a legal tool that companies use for protecting their trade secrets when having talks with external parties about things that are close to company strategy.

Or, said from a different perspective, it's one of the ways companies silence people when they want to get away with evil.

@fedi

Jeroen Baert Jun 18, 2023

@stux I think this is the right stance. Thank you.

eThanOS ☠️Jun 18, 2023

@stux Thanks. Appreciate seeing cooler heads joining the discussion.

Trit’Jun 18, 2023

@stux For once, I’d like there would be NO bullying campaign against instances admins who don’t follow the “blocking orders” when it does not concern blatantly illegal contents. Freedom is also freedom of choice, and users still can block other users or instances themselves, if they don’t want to interact with some of them.

Good luck.

Sammy 🦊Jun 19, 2023

@TritTriton

Absolutely, and that also means we should be open and supportive of people moving away from instances where admin make poor decisions! Remember; migrating accounts on mastodon is easy and possible (unlike Facebook).

And nobody would want to paint people with a legitimate concern or complaint as being abusive, right? That's a gross right wing tactic to squash criticism, especially when as mastodon's excellent moderation tools were an example why Facebook won't be a problem 😉

Trit’Jun 19, 2023

@sammy Of course. Nobody has to feel forced to do or endure thing they don’t want.

serklarvel Jun 18, 2023

@stux I agree with your decision. In fact, Meta's Threads will be much more vulnerable to lose users to other instances once they learn how the #fediverse works. Why would I choose to be on a comercial plataform like Meta's, where I am exposed to ads all the time, if I can migrate to an instance which is ad-free?

serklarvel Jun 18, 2023

@stux another option is to block Meta only when they have destroyed Twitter. A kind of "Mission Accomplished" reward 😉

Dr.Implausible Jun 18, 2023

@serklarvel @stux
How would they know?
How would the average user, scrolling on a Meta-Fedi feed, seeing a flow of the usual FB screeds, IG pics, algorithmically tweaked correct amount of ads, and whatever post from the broader Fediverse that goes viral enough to squeak through the filter, be able to tell that things operate differently here?

serklarvel Jun 18, 2023

@drimplausible @stux we on the fediverse can follow people on Thread and tell them there is life outside Meta-Matrix. There will be TT related to fediverse. If Meta blocks such information, then they are playing tricks and should be defederated. Right now, I see Thread much more vulnerable to the fediverse, unless they a fantastic app, superior to Mastodon and others. Anyway, there is no need to rush and pre-block Meta now.

@serklarvel @drimplausible @stux

artisanrox Jun 19, 2023

The thing that worries me ahead of time is the taking over of successful social media to make it inherently a massive disinformation platform.

Facebook was made to be a massive disinformation platform.

Tracking other instances doesn't worry me per se. But these disinfo platforms will absolutely not stop being that, and if factual responses to "vaccines kill people" and "vinegar kills cancer" are zapped Lemmy-styl;e that is also a reason they should be cut.

@drimplausible @serklarvel @stux

In fact, when even most Mastodon users aren't even aware of the existence of other Fediverse platforms, you can bet that Meta will make sure their users will be kept in obscurity as far and wide as possible.

AlexLapins Jun 19, 2023

@serklarvel @stux This would assume that they're offering no value other than a different mastodon client. I doubt that's the case.

André Jun 19, 2023

@serklarvel @stux I wouldn't bet on them allowing easy account migration across the fediverse. Meta can just choose to not offer the "move" activity to their users, effectively locking them in if they don't want to lose followers.

Ciechom

Jun 20, 2023

@andre @serklarvel @stux yeah, they can just make it impossible to switch to another instance.

serklarvel Jun 20, 2023

@Ciechom @stux @andre it's very possible indeed

@serklarvel @stux there's actually very little chance that a significant number of accounts will jump ship from Threads to the rest of the Fediverse. Keep in mind Meta controls their side of the connection and will make sure that (1) leaving will be hard (you can be your life they will NOT‌ support one-click migration TO Mastodon, although they'll probably support it in reverse
(2) what they let through of the Fediverse will not be meanignful enough to even justify jumping over.

Queue

Jun 18, 2023

@stux "Meta is not gab" yeah it only allows Nazis to propagate easily without fear of removal or ban, and allows data harvesting companies to collect so much that it has to investigated by Congress.

Sure it's not ran by Nazis but it allows without question them free admission and publication.

Meta is not our friend.

Jamie Jun 18, 2023

@queue @stux Facebook only facilitated the Rohyinga massacres in Myammar, 1/6 Capitol attack and propaganda that is killing trans people, but nothing to be concerned about here, folks.

Jon (now at neuromatch.social)Jun 18, 2023

@jamiestl
@queue Yep. I did a poll about this a while ago and over 90% of the responses saw Meta/FB similar to Gab (although admiittedly I phrased as a bit of a leading question). Several different people said to me "At first I thought you were exaggerating about Meta but geez they really did do all those things!" #DefederateMeta

https://indieweb.social/@jdp23/110449505980762006

Jon (@[email protected])

A #FediblockMeta poll on #defederation Which (if either) of these two hypothetical instances would you want your instance to block? - G is a hub for right-wing coup planning; hosts accounts that spew hate and disinformation; and is run by white supremacists - M is a hub for right-wing coup planning; sells ads that amplify hate and disinformation; contributes to genocides; and has a long track record of privacy abuses, discrimination, and law-breaking @[email protected] [ ] Bock G (but not M) [ ] Block M (but not G) [ ] Block both [ ] Don't block either

Indieweb.Social

Kevin Karhan

Jun 18, 2023

@queue @stux #NSAbook is our enemy, because they not only WILL but ALREADY DO SNITCH ON USERS!

And not only in regards to #PRISM, but literally ratting out #LGBTQIA in #MENA nations and people seeking #Abortions in the #USA and #Poland...
https://mstdn.social/@kkarhan/110567700762933288

Kevin Karhan :verified: (@[email protected])

Content warning: meta, literal meta

Mastodon 🐘

https://github.com/greyhat-academy/lists.d/blob/main/activitypub.domains.block.list.tsv

Queue

Jun 18, 2023

@kkarhan You probably wanna export your account out of your instance. I suggest anything on the list by @vantablack

I just wounder what the blocklist may look like since I do follow some instances that may be partially defederated by some, but not all...

lists.d/activitypub.domains.block.list.tsv at main · greyhat-academy/lists.d

List of useful things. Contribute to greyhat-academy/lists.d development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub

Pamela Ehn Jun 19, 2023

@kkarhan @queue @vantablack and egregiously, if you complain about Nazi content, nothing will be done. And if you punch back at any Nazis harassing you, you get put in Metajail with nothing happening to the harassers.

Kevin Karhan

Jun 19, 2023

@cadenza @queue @vantablack yeah.

To make it extra insulting, & only #geoblock said contents but don't take them offline - regardless if tuese are literally illegal in several juristictions AND are universally bad.

Dan Jun 18, 2023

@stux I appreciate the update. I hope that your gut instincts are right.

Me? I don’t think Meta will ever be as evil as Gab.

I fear they will pull a bait and switch on us. Try to be magnanimous . Openness. No advertising. Easy move to another server.

Then once they are massively the most dominant player - they reverse all of that and lock down the server from cross posting, start bombarding with ads, make it harder to leave.

I hope I am wrong.

Dan Jun 18, 2023

@stux But I also think overall we will be better off with a player that big in the space. The money and attention they bring outweigh the negatives.