Scenic VerveJun 15, 2023
Andrew Stroehlein

Mass drownings at sea are to the EU what mass shootings are to the US.

- It keeps happening.

- And every time it happens, politicians pretend to be concerned, yet keep in place the government policies at the root of the problem.

- So, it keeps happening.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/seventeen-drown-100-rescued-after-migrant-shipwreck-off-greece-2023-06-14/

At least 79 drown, hundreds missing in migrant shipwreck off Greece

At least 79 migrants drowned early on Wednesday and hundreds more were missing and feared dead after their overloaded boat capsized and sank in open seas off Greece, in one of Europe's deadliest shipping disasters in recent years.

Reuters
Jun 15, 2023 at 9:51amWeb
Show threadEric Redegeld💻🏎️☀️🙋💖Jun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein hmzzz this is easy said.Think the blame is more where the boat started. Mass shooting can happen everywhere. Even where guns are banned.
Show threadTom RitchfordJun 15, 2023

@redegelde @andrewstroehlein

"Mass shooting can happen everywhere. Even where guns are banned."

But that is an invalid argument.

"Diseases can happen everywhere" but that is not an argument for performing surgery without washing your hands.

"Car accidents can happen everywhere" but that is not an excuse for careless driving.

Show threadEric Redegeld💻🏎️☀️🙋💖Jun 15, 2023
@TomSwirly @andrewstroehlein don't think the comparison with mass drowning is the same as with mass shootings
Show threadEric Redegeld💻🏎️☀️🙋💖Jun 15, 2023
@TomSwirly @andrewstroehlein but. first those smugglers who deserved the highest penalty and more. People locked on a boat, children and women. down Like rats in a trap. This is really too bad
Show threadBen AvelingJun 15, 2023
@redegelde @andrewstroehlein and yet, almost all mass shootings are in places where guns are not banned.
Show threadOpenDNA⚙️Jun 15, 2023

@redegelde @andrewstroehlein A Sea Shepherd captain and crew are being prosecuted for saving drowning migrants on the Mediterranean. Captain Pia Klemp and crew saved about 14,000 lives, and were rewarded with seized vessels and a criminal trial with a 20-year sentence at stake.

It is a truth, universally accepted in law, that when you actively interfere with saving lives, you become guilty for the deaths.

Show threadWildduckJun 15, 2023
@redegelde @andrewstroehlein
Facts :
- Mass shootings DON'T happen where guns possession is under common sense regulation.
- There is a real will in Europe to harden the outer borders and prosecute anyone involved in helping the lives in danger at sea. Even if it means colaborating with irregular troops in rogue states to "intercept" the boats.
Show threadWildduckJun 22, 2023
@redegelde @andrewstroehlein
So, this short thread : https://chaosfem.tw/@revoluciana/110584497926336553
🌈Lucy🏳️‍⚧️ | Revoluciana (@[email protected])

I'm laughing at memes about billionaires who can't pull themselves up to the surface by their own bootstraps, but in reality I'm furious. I'm furious I was accused of human smuggling by FRONTEX (European border agency) for being part of a sea rescue operation that saved 1000+ lives of refugees fleeing war & terrorism. I'm furious at the money & international effort being spent to rescue these billionaires when operations like ours cost so little and save so many lives, but are punished. 1/3

Chaosfem
Show threadflere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jun 15, 2023
@redegelde do kindly go fuck yourself – you're part of the problem.
Show threadFierce, Lord PankakeJun 16, 2023

@redegelde @andrewstroehlein

So the West impoverishes these countries and meddles in their politics, causing wars and famines. So their peoples flee.. Then the West deprives these migrants of all legal routes for claiming asylum, or gives them a hostile environment, or both..

So how is this the poor countries fault?

Show threadSaupreiss #Präparat500 🗽Jun 15, 2023

Primary concern is how to avoid pictures like those of Aylan Kurdi in media. It's okay to happen for politics and the general public as long as it remains invisible.

@andrewstroehlein

Show thread(((o))) Acoustic MirrorJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein "Deeply concerned" is EU-speak for "thoughts and prayers".
Show threadEike LeidgensJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein
Keep the policies in place or even increase...
Show threadElz de KorteJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein Always those cheap thoughts and prayers.
Show threadPeter BindelsJun 15, 2023

@andrewstroehlein They're similar but not comparable.

Mass shootings have no component of choice for the victims. You can choose not to get on a boat.

... but that's kind of where the differences end. Both are major tragedies and indeed, in both cases the governments can do a lot to prevent suffering and death, but choose to not act.

Show threadElz de KorteJun 15, 2023
@dascandy42 @andrewstroehlein like you have choice: of course not. Its dying or drowning.
Show threadMab_813Jun 15, 2023

@dascandy42 @andrewstroehlein

Yeah toddlers who drowned in the Mediterranean Sea just made the wrong choice. Their mistake, why did they get on a boat?

Show threadflere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jun 15, 2023
@dascandy42 @andrewstroehlein you can also choose to be born white, and you can also choose to be born in netherlands and forget about your country's complicity in the slave trade.
Show threadPeter BindelsJun 15, 2023

@mawhrin @andrewstroehlein ... Ad hominem much?

I know dang well what my country did during slave trade, the genocide they committed - and I'm pretty much helpless to do much about it, being born ~150+ years too late.

Show threadflere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jun 15, 2023
@dascandy42 @andrewstroehlein and what happens now is the consequence of europe's colonial history. the eu's border policy is the continuation of europe's colonial history.
Show threadMaxwell EdisonJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein the politicians consider this a feature not a bug
Show threadΜιχάληςJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein Not quite. The American problem has concrete solutions that a majority of Americans want to see implemented even though they will never pass through the senate.
What’s the concrete solution that most Europeans would find acceptable? And who’s stopping it? I am for 100% open borders but very few Europeans agree with that.
Show threadFionaJun 15, 2023

@andrewstroehlein

I disagree: I don’t think that even among the most crazy anti-gun-regulation-morons in the US there is any meaningful minority that think that the shoostings are GOOD or DESIRABLE.

With some of our EU-politicians, I have a feeling that this may very well be a different story when it comes to drowning refugees.

Show threadpaulocesarJun 15, 2023
@FJW it saddens me a lot that I have to agree with you. And I would also add that Immigrant hate is not uncommon at all among the Europeans in general, so those kind of people will always have a platform
Show threadDiamond JoyJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein My thoughts exactly. Why is it always migrant boats?
Show threadSouthern LeftistJun 15, 2023

@andrewstroehlein
Not society, but the people in charge.

Some people in congress haven't learnt that yet.

Show threadRejZoRJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein so, how again is EU at fault for ILLEGALS crossing mediterranean sea using makeshift boats and drowning in the process?
Show threadflere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jun 15, 2023
@rejzor @andrewstroehlein no human is illegal, and you might want to learn a bit about the geneva conventions before you decide to put your naked arse on the display.
Show threadRejZoRJun 15, 2023
@mawhrin @andrewstroehlein Status of refugee also states you refuge to first safe country, not 15 countries because you fancy whatever. Then you become economic migrant. Illegal one.
Show threadflere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jun 15, 2023

@rejzor ah, that old chestnut. you might want to consult summer lawyers specialising in human rights though, not to regurgitate state propaganda.

@andrewstroehlein

Show threadRejZoRJun 16, 2023
@mawhrin @andrewstroehlein What state propaganda? If you think I'm some right wing loon, you couldn't be more wrong, but even for very left leaning person, migration is something I don't just unconditionally welcome. Call me whatever you want for that, but all this led to was crime and enclaves of people who didn't migrate to my country but migrated their country into mine. And they never change and never improve. That's a shit way to get foreigners.
Show threadflere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jun 16, 2023
@rejzor mate, you're just regurgitating right-wing propaganda. right fucking here.
Show threadRejZoRJun 16, 2023
@mawhrin Oh fuck off with your labeling bullshit. I'm not watching or listening to any right wing shit, this is MY OWN opinion because we have first hand experience with illegals and badly integrated migrants, I believe in proper migration channels and proper integration into newly chosen society. If I were to migrate to US from Europe, I wouldn't just raft my ass there and demand them to just deal with me in white gloves or be called right wing bigots. Do you even read the shit you write?
Show threadflere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jun 16, 2023
@rejzor thank you for your insight. you may fuck off now.
Show threadRejZoRJun 16, 2023
@mawhrin Likewise
Show threadsorry 🇵🇸☭Jun 15, 2023

@andrewstroehlein I don't think they're the same, even if they are similar.

Mass shootings keep happening in the US due to inaction, failing to take adequate measures to prevent them.

In the EU, at the very least a lot of the drownings are caused the active participation of EU agencies (chiefly amongst them Frontex). Here, even their complete inaction would be vastly preferable to their current actions.

That is not to defend either of these, obviously.

Show threadsorry 🇵🇸☭Jun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein If anything, the EU is much worse, because to stop (or at least vastly moderate) the problems it wouldn't even need to do anything in particular; if only they stopped what they are doing right now and did absolutely nothing, it would already be much better.
Show threadAngela MillerJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein
I hesitate to say that's a 'good ' analogy, but it's accurate. Horrible.
Show threadOleksandr Natalenko, MSE Jun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein is it ok to compare symptoms and the outcomes, but not the root causes, which differ?
Show threadKevin Karhan Jun 15, 2023

@andrewstroehlein yes.

#Racism and #Militancy at the borders on one side and #PropagandaOfTheDeed that rewards #StochasticTerrorism at the other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VQULyT390

How the American Media Fuels A Cycle of Violence

YouTube
Show threadChessNordJun 15, 2023

@andrewstroehlein But they can just fix it like we do here in the US with thoughts and prayers. I don't see a problem here.

#sarcasm

Show threadFelipe Jun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein
https://youtu.be/DHasz-ohqZ4
How The EU Created The World's Deadliest Border

YouTube
Show threadnullJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein Immigration is ultimately a food thing , but migrants need to do it legally so they can be kept track of until they gain citizenship and so they dont end up missing like these unfortunate souls
Show threadashJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein They feel less invested because those suffering aren't nationals and idk whether the US' [vocal concern + political deadlock] or the EU's is more disappointing.
Show threadArchieJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein What an absurd comparison. Who's killing the migrants Andrew?
Show threadQuincyOtterJun 15, 2023
@Archie8 @andrewstroehlein More apropos would be the decades of deaths by dehydration and heat stress from attempting foot crossing of U.S. Southwest deserts. Our border strategy deliberately exposes migrants to this risk. The deaths usually get concealed by scavengers. Radiolab did a good story on it.
https://radiolab.org/series/border-trilogy
Series | Radiolab | WNYC Studios

Investigating a strange world.

Radiolab Podcasts | WNYC Studios
Show threadflere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jun 15, 2023
@Archie8 @andrewstroehlein european union's border policies (and your country's border policies explicitly – now that you finally fucked off)
Show threadArchieJun 15, 2023
@mawhrin @andrewstroehlein What should the EU and UK's border policy be?
If you say it should be an open border I'm going to laugh at you!
Show threadflere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jun 15, 2023
@Archie8 frankly my dear i don't give a damn – as long as you fuck off from the six counties and scotland; feel free trying to make your isolationist policies work for england and wales, if wales really wants it.
Show threadArchieJun 15, 2023
@mawhrin Thanks for exposing your racism
Show threadflere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jun 15, 2023
@Archie8 disliking british imperialism and english nationalism is racism now?
Show threadArchieJun 15, 2023
@mawhrin Who were you talking about when you said this "as long as you fuck off from the six counties and scotland" ?
Show threadflere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jun 15, 2023
@Archie8 why, the current english government, of course. ireland should be united, and scotland – independent.
Show threadmaiamaiaJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein I hate the eu, they are evil racist pigs, & I hate the uk too, ditto
Show threadSilverpantzJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein ... does Europe actively convince people to get on boats they know will capsize then proclaim that nothing can be done and also its wrong to judge people that sell boats prone to capsizing? Do they then make it impossible to know who made/sold/owned/traded the boat? If the fuel was specific to capsizing boats do they subsidize and shield the fuel makers? (I honestly don't know any of this, but if they do, that's wild).
Show threadAnvil of TruthJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein Do you mean they make failing fishing boats and human smuggling into to sell online, retail and through illegal transfers as a product of their constitution? Sorry but I think there is false equivalency in your post.
Show threadCoolBlenderKittenJun 15, 2023
@andrewstroehlein
I can't understand why we allow this to happen.
Show threadExtinction (our fate)Jun 16, 2023
@andrewstroehlein Terrible, inhumane government policies actually constitute the only remaining vestige of civilization.
Show threadfanf42Jun 16, 2023
@andrewstroehlein @aral and we are blind to the obvious reasons that produce it.
And these reasons are there to please a right part of the electorate, for which lives matter less than being in the "in" group