wr4th4
Pavel A. Samsonov
AlienKnight@PavelASamsonov I want to have an office because I need separation of home/life and work. I do think there are some issues with offices of course, like being forced to go, but it's nice to have a 2nd location to separate the tasks mentally and physically
Carsten Becker@linkeddev This, and while I'd call myself an introvert, I actually missed seeing coworkers in person during the lockdowns, and also e.g. having lunch with people. OTOH, I've never worked in the corporate hellscape that the media suggests the American open-plan office to be. (I know the OP is a joke template, but I keep seeing that point made seriously far too often.)
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛@chrpistorius @linkeddev I'm working 40% in the office now, and I find 20%–40% pretty much perfect.
That's in an office that is open-plan but with big desks which got bigger thanks to the pandemic and physical distancing, nice pantry with sofa and plenty of conference rooms.
The pandemic did a lot of good both for improving the office itself and also for working there less.
Jay Frosting 🧁@chrpistorius What is the difference between seeing someone on screen vs. seeing them in person? All I can think of is the ability to look down and see their shoes, if you're really into shoes.
LisPi@linkeddev @PavelASamsonov Wouldn't renting/joining/using a shared workspace or however they're called cover that use-case?
Rémi Dupré@lispi314 @linkeddev @PavelASamsonov nah, in my personal case I need to feel this contact with people working on the same project as me to stay engaged in it. Otherwise, after less than two weeks of continuous remote work, it just feels pointless and depressing 🙁
active landslide
ShadowInTheVoid@PavelASamsonov anyone required to goto an office or other specific location for work should be payed to do it out of the normal working day and should have their travel expenses payed for
Beatsmith@PavelASamsonov Flip the script, and suddenly you find good reasons for most of that shit. Not every office is like that but I know what you mean.
Mrs Cloudy@Moreslaw @PavelASamsonov what good reasons?
Dreaming of dad jazz.@CloudyMrs
Oh for sure.
John Prine even wrote a song about it (Angel of Montgomery).
@Moreslaw @PavelASamsonov
Gen X-Wing@PavelASamsonov Work from home is better for the environment. Give companies a tax rebate per person who works from home and I am sure companies would fall over each other to make people work from home.
Christiaan Moleman@PavelASamsonov Yes, but a problem with using this meme format is that it's normally used to ridicule something legitimately and obviously useful (like <insert occupation>), and make normal things sound insane... not to make a sincere plea to stop doing something that's actually bad.
@PavelASamsonov Then again, maybe this is actually a better use of this format.
Paul Quirk@PavelASamsonov it was your fault; you could have joined a trade union.
@quirk @PavelASamsonov There's no such union nor guild in my country for my trade. I've looked.
@lispi314 when I was a programmer working on the Y2k bug, I did not consider my profession a trade. Today I am a licensed electrician, and belong to a trade union. A trade union professional does not normally work in an office or at home, we work at a job site. Sometimes that job site is an office, but we're not sitting at the desks all day wishing we could "work" from home.
@quirk What exactly makes the Writers guilds around legitimate but doesn't apply to programmers?
Or are you going to argue that creative work isn't work?
Should they be abused just because they don't do as much manual labor? That'd be one hell of a weird take on worker rights.
As for a trade, I'd say any profession with a relatively narrow set of minimum skills which can be learned at a technikum would qualify.
@lispi314 the writer's Guild also is not a trade union, as writing is not considered a trade. There are also labour unions, but a labourer does not hold any specific trade designation, so a labour union isn't a trade union. People of every profession have the right to organize and form a union for their profession, but it's up to them to get the cards signed and get people out to vote. They can't do that working from their homes.
@quirk Why is that? I managed to vote for my national elections by mail, so there's certainly precedent that it's feasible.
And I see that your objection was primarily about the technical category (which happens to translate a bit weirdly with technical schools & their options being trades as my country and its people tend to consider them).
@lispi314 there's president, set by someone who took it upon themselves to build democracy; your voters form didn't arrive by magic. A union needs to be built by the workers. This means meeting others in your occupation to plan a strategy and to draw up a collective agreement. Then you must be ready to negotiate with your employers and balance your wants with their needs, and if you do not agree, you must be ready to go on strike. If you're working from home, are you going to picket your house?
@quirk Picketing isn't what's effective about collectively refusing to perform labor. The core is a lot simpler.
Publishing broadly on all channels that no work is happening at the company (or across all employers for that field) would accomplish about the same.
Unless we go back, I suppose, to historical precedents where there was a tangible threat of direct violence and sabotage... but then sabotage is still feasible. I'm not sure that's what you're advocating though.
@lispi314 you could organize a union or guild, and go on strike if your demands aren't met, but what's to stop the company from employing scabs to do the work? If the work needs to be done at an office, your picket line becomes a physical barrier. If everyone is working from home, they could employ scabs and nobody would be the wiser until it's too late.
@quirk They could just hire remote scabs for all work that can be done remote and use helicopters for those that absolutely need to be on-site (likewise food delivery via private drones is doable).
There's very little we can actually do about that if they're willing to bother.
The social mechanism of sharing what they're doing and refusing to work for employers that do that would be more practical and effective. Widespread membership in the union would make it a lot easier to check for that.
@lispi314 except there may be laws in your country that require work be done in the office. Laws that may have been put in place to protect you and your rights. Laws that would be much easier to circumvent should everyone decide they ought to be working from home. And if you think it's so easy to get everyone in your profession to join your union, I recommend a book called Dreams of Dignity, workers of vision. If you want to know your future, study the past.
@quirk In the meantime, employers here have done exactly nothing but the most ineffective and minimal of implementation of biosafety measures despite a pandemic with >=10% chances of permanently disabling you (partly or fully) on every infection.
I don't consider being forced to expose myself to gratuitous biohazards to be adequate protection (it's also against our bill of rights).
I'll still take note of that book as it might be interesting.
@lispi314 this quote by Oscar Wilde comes to mind: "There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it."
TwopawCorporations call fear of not being paid, fear of not having work and being paid, and fear of disobeying idiots who have less and less practical skills to do anything but dictate and demand the further up almost every corporate ladder you go, 'respect'.
It is not respect; it is obeisance expected to demands by one's superiors to do, die, and not question your orders, on pain of having less if you fail to adhere precisely to their fool's itinerary, or question their judgement.
TofuTheSquirrel@PavelASamsonov to be fair to the half headset : you need a free ear, to hear your manager breathe down your neck.
BoredomFestival@PavelASamsonov :chefskiss:
BlackPixelDust: Art 
@PavelASamsonov
The 45 to 90 minute commute is for real for real. 😭 i have family members that do that several times a week. The 90 minutes.
Also. Amazingly with technology.... the company intranet should be... everywhere! And accessible by authorized parties! It's called a VPN tunnel! 😂😭🌈
Also. 'The Cloud' is just someone else's computer. LEGIT. For a lot of businesses, Amazon Web Services lol.
Management stuck thinking of offices like it's the 1930s. 🥴
@PavelASamsonov
(This is not to mention the people that NEED to be in an office space for whatever reason. Management should be smart enough to accommodate both. I mean, wasnt management promoted to that position due to smarts and ability to handle 'complex' situations?)
(This is not to mention the people that NEED to be in an office space for whatever reason. Management should be smart enough to accommodate both. I mean, wasnt management promoted to that position due to smarts and ability to handle 'complex' situations?)
lizzzzard@jtphillipsmnr @PavelASamsonov you get into management because you're able to make clever decisions when not all variables are completely clear (aka "complex) - or because you *think* you have that ability and can convince other managers of it.
Wendy Lady@PavelASamsonov once worked in a nice fun office with an eclectic style of office spaces that worked well and then they remodelled "to make room for more employees" and it was like working in a call center. Everyone was miserable and when several employees complained about a specific light that was causing migraines because of the angle it hit a certain space in the office, it was ignored and dismissed as "employees complaining for no reason."
dr 🛠️🛰️📡🎧
@PavelASamsonov I love working from home, but there are definitely reasons to sometimes be at the office. Serendipitous meetings, specialized equipment, simpler collaboration on a lot of things, sensitive data, etc.
Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇬🇱@PavelASamsonov In my workplace, I was the *only* person in there for most of lockdown, aside perhaps from security, facilities, maintenance, and cleaning. So, basically 2 years of utter peace.
Now, about 50% or so of the people are back in the office Tues, Weds, & Thurs.
Noise levels up, productivity levels down (because they all want to chat with their mates they've not seen since last week, etc.)
🇳🇿 
💉*9 Roger@PavelASamsonov so true. And for the people who point out things that still work better in person : we just need to get better at WFH. We got good at going to an office (which is weird) so we can get good at WFH.
For the people who need a sep space, I get that. But a 90 minute commute to a sep space is too much. Find somewhere closer & get your boss to pay for it (which won't happen but it should)
For the people who need a sep space, I get that. But a 90 minute commute to a sep space is too much. Find somewhere closer & get your boss to pay for it (which won't happen but it should)
jared@PavelASamsonov the furnishings 💀
Jane Doe@PavelASamsonov I like offices, but I live within walking distance of the CBD; So going to the office is basically my daily exercise. I can see why people wouldn’t want to drive 90 minutes a day to do stuff they could do at home.
tomm 
@PavelASamsonov My dopamine levels are already way too low to be able to work in my home. I’d be 10x more productive in an office.
Giddey_up@PavelASamsonov There are so many professional time-wasters who rely on an office environment to survive. Useless, toxic meetings, wandering about with a coffee cup interrupting people. “Management by walking around” was an actual thing! #WFH was a revelation for me. The most productive, creative, focused work of my career was from home.
woolie@PavelASamsonov applicable to: white collar office workers.
Wolf480pl@PavelASamsonov idk I tried this wfh thing but every time I went to the kitchen to get more tea, there was noone there to describe my problem to. Do people really buy rubber ducks to fill that gap?
@wolf480pl get a cat
@PavelASamsonov I'm allergic to cats...
@wolf480pl @PavelASamsonov You can. Anime figurines work too.
You can also just talk to yourself.
will-r-s-hansen@PavelASamsonov One of the best meme formats
hukka 🧡ᑒ@PavelASamsonov too real
Daybed Baby
PlanetEdi@PavelASamsonov I WFH most of the time. It’s lonely. I can’t do sensitive work in a cafe. When I do get to go to the office I enjoy my commute on the train as I get to listen to a few podcasts. It’s not the furnishings I go to the office for - it’s the people. We get much more done working together and it’s just nice to be with them.
@PavelASamsonov Sheesh. Bad timing. Now it looks like I agree with Jeremy Hunt which is not the case at all!
@plantbasededi It's ok, I don't know who that is
@PavelASamsonov Lucky you
@plantbasededi Recognizing my American privilege
Barry Rowlingson@PavelASamsonov I want to put this as a sticker on the office door, but I work from home...
Luís@PavelASamsonov "I would like to hear half of your Zoom call" is funny because it's painful.