Pavel A. Samsonov
Paul Quirk@PavelASamsonov it was your fault; you could have joined a trade union.
LisPi@quirk @PavelASamsonov There's no such union nor guild in my country for my trade. I've looked.
@lispi314 when I was a programmer working on the Y2k bug, I did not consider my profession a trade. Today I am a licensed electrician, and belong to a trade union. A trade union professional does not normally work in an office or at home, we work at a job site. Sometimes that job site is an office, but we're not sitting at the desks all day wishing we could "work" from home.
@quirk What exactly makes the Writers guilds around legitimate but doesn't apply to programmers?
Or are you going to argue that creative work isn't work?
Should they be abused just because they don't do as much manual labor? That'd be one hell of a weird take on worker rights.
As for a trade, I'd say any profession with a relatively narrow set of minimum skills which can be learned at a technikum would qualify.
@lispi314 the writer's Guild also is not a trade union, as writing is not considered a trade. There are also labour unions, but a labourer does not hold any specific trade designation, so a labour union isn't a trade union. People of every profession have the right to organize and form a union for their profession, but it's up to them to get the cards signed and get people out to vote. They can't do that working from their homes.
@quirk Why is that? I managed to vote for my national elections by mail, so there's certainly precedent that it's feasible.
And I see that your objection was primarily about the technical category (which happens to translate a bit weirdly with technical schools & their options being trades as my country and its people tend to consider them).
@lispi314 there's president, set by someone who took it upon themselves to build democracy; your voters form didn't arrive by magic. A union needs to be built by the workers. This means meeting others in your occupation to plan a strategy and to draw up a collective agreement. Then you must be ready to negotiate with your employers and balance your wants with their needs, and if you do not agree, you must be ready to go on strike. If you're working from home, are you going to picket your house?
@quirk Picketing isn't what's effective about collectively refusing to perform labor. The core is a lot simpler.
Publishing broadly on all channels that no work is happening at the company (or across all employers for that field) would accomplish about the same.
Unless we go back, I suppose, to historical precedents where there was a tangible threat of direct violence and sabotage... but then sabotage is still feasible. I'm not sure that's what you're advocating though.
@lispi314 you could organize a union or guild, and go on strike if your demands aren't met, but what's to stop the company from employing scabs to do the work? If the work needs to be done at an office, your picket line becomes a physical barrier. If everyone is working from home, they could employ scabs and nobody would be the wiser until it's too late.
@quirk They could just hire remote scabs for all work that can be done remote and use helicopters for those that absolutely need to be on-site (likewise food delivery via private drones is doable).
There's very little we can actually do about that if they're willing to bother.
The social mechanism of sharing what they're doing and refusing to work for employers that do that would be more practical and effective. Widespread membership in the union would make it a lot easier to check for that.
@lispi314 except there may be laws in your country that require work be done in the office. Laws that may have been put in place to protect you and your rights. Laws that would be much easier to circumvent should everyone decide they ought to be working from home. And if you think it's so easy to get everyone in your profession to join your union, I recommend a book called Dreams of Dignity, workers of vision. If you want to know your future, study the past.
@quirk In the meantime, employers here have done exactly nothing but the most ineffective and minimal of implementation of biosafety measures despite a pandemic with >=10% chances of permanently disabling you (partly or fully) on every infection.
I don't consider being forced to expose myself to gratuitous biohazards to be adequate protection (it's also against our bill of rights).
I'll still take note of that book as it might be interesting.
@lispi314 this quote by Oscar Wilde comes to mind: "There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it."