Mastodawn

Katz Podargus Jun 13, 2023

I don't see nearly enough people talking about the staggering cost to the US and allies as a result of The Former Guy's theft.

Politics is one thing, but in the Intelligence and Counterintelligence communities, there are protocols. And one protocol you can take to the bank: When a man who is known to have back channel connections to literally every one of our enemies steals a trove of classified documents, you treat every single one of them as if they are now owned by our enemies.

Let the gravity of that sink in. Every single agent mentioned is now compromised. Every agent alluded to is compromised. Every combat plan is now available for all our enemies to develop countermeasures for. Every secret plan to develop intelligence on our enemies is now a dead end.

There were nuclear secrets in there.

How do you begin to calculate the impact and cost of the enemy knowing our nuclear secrets, including potentially our plans if Putin were to launch a limited nuclear strike?

We will never know the cost of it, because it's all SUPPOSED TO BE SECRET TO PROTECT US FROM OUR ENEMIES. But however much you think it cost, it was probably more.

The Defense Department and Intelligence Community don't have the luxury of hoping he didn't make the sales we all know he made.

They have to assume he sold all of it. Whether it's ever proven or not.

This is one of the worst crimes ever committed by a US citizen against the US.

Catherine is not complacent Jun 13, 2023

@willallen and he’ll dance around and raise money off it, it will drag out and turn into to a blurb that’s updated every few weeks because the MSN has the attention span of a house fly.

Will Allen Jun 13, 2023

@CatDragon the hope is that both Jack Smith and the presiding judge (who I seriously doubt will be Judge Cannon) will expedite the trial. They have that power.

The other factor that may work in favor of justice is the caliber of lawyer willing to risk their license to represent him at this point. He's a nightmare client, and won't accept legal advice that... you know... follows the law. He expects his lawyers to participate in crimes with him.

Bring low quality lawyers against Jack Smith, have a bad day.

Wizard Bear (💉x8 + 😷)Jun 13, 2023

@willallen This is shockingly all true and MSM doesn't seem to want to pay attention to the enormous negative effects Trump has inflicted on the United States. TY for sharing your thoughts. Following you now as well.

LeaBug Jun 13, 2023

@willallen when he's found guilty, he should be made to leave the country. Never allowed to do business in America, own American assets and his name should be struck from all the history books.

@LeaBug @willallen Unfortunately, as embarrassing as he is, I hope Trump stays in the history books. Those who do not study the past are doomed to repeat it and all that.

It's like Germany and that one guy. Some people are so bad, we can't forget. As much as we'd like to.

Will Allen Jun 13, 2023

@Jdreben @LeaBug the US will be lucky to escape this with historians writing books, as opposed to ministers of propaganda.

And yes. He must be included. US hubris and exceptionalist thought will destroy the world if they don't learn from their mistakes.

LeaBug Jun 14, 2023

@Jdreben @willallen a great point.

ferricoxide Jun 13, 2023

@willallen

By any reasonable measure, Julius Rosenberg did less damage.

Kyle Memoir 🍉🐧Jun 13, 2023

Imagine if they’d been wise and just stamped “TOP SECRET” on select wikipedia printouts and fed him that. It would have worked.

BronMason For Kamala 2024 Jun 13, 2023

PREACH!

Chu 朱 Jun 13, 2023

This reminds me of Guo Kai.

http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Zhou/personsguokai.html

One of China's most well known traitors. He opened up Zhao for Qin to conquer paving the way for Qin Shi Huang to "unite" China. Lots of book burning and slaughtering of scholars took place during this time.

Guo Kai 郭開 (www.chinaknowledge.de)

Guo Kai 郭開 was a high dignitary in the state of Zhao 趙 during the late Warring States period, and a minion of xxx king.

Katz Podargus Jun 13, 2023

@willallen I see the way US has pursued Assange (an Australian citizen) over far less damaging leaks, whilst ignoring the similar role the media took. The man is still rotting in gaol having never yet been found guilty. Will be interesting to see the different way a rich American, who was once president, will be treated by your legal system. I doubt he will be treated anywhere near as badly, even though his crimes are far, far worse & far more harmful. The whole world is watching this.

Will Allen Jun 13, 2023

@katzpodargus I share your thoughts about the way it will be handled. There aren't a lot of precedents for spies being caught red handed dealing nuclear secrets in the US. The Rosenbergs were executed for it.

It seems to me it's almost impossible to effectively punish such an egregious crime. Every count he is charged with has a maximum monetary fine that wouldn't scratch his monthly Big Mac budget. Sending him to prison would certainly be appropriate, but it's hard to imagine him not still running his empire from prison.

To be blunt, I expect him to be convicted and given the Hitler Treatment. Maybe a couple years in prison with some kind of release program and maybe a paltry fine. (Paltry for him.) I'll be pleasantly surprised if it's anything more than that.

The other option, of course, is that the US will prove it is a fully failed state, and he will not be punished at all.

JDS Jun 13, 2023

@willallen @katzpodargus or pardoned by the next, worse installation 😞

NotMaddie!Jun 13, 2023

@willallen From October 2021

Will Allen Jun 13, 2023

@madrobin yeah. This was on my mind when I penned the OP. And I am 100% sure of one thing. This is the story that leaked. The reality is worse than they're letting on, but they're smart enough to keep it a secret how bad the damage was.

Francisca Sinn Jun 13, 2023

@willallen “They have to assume he sold all of it. Whether it's ever proven or not.”

This exactly. I don’t understand how so many people appear to be missing this point. No one who says “he didn’t sell national security and *Five Eyes* intelligence” knows that as fact, and the more that politicians and pundits lean into the story that it was all to play hot-shot at his club, the more it appears they know that he did in fact sell secrets. The DOJ can’t even admit it if they do know that he did.

Will Allen Jun 13, 2023

@fsinn exactly so. Anybody who even gives a cursory glance at TFG's career will see he has never passed up an opportunity to make dirty money. It would defy all credulity to suggest that he stole all of this to sit on it.

The DOJ, DOD, and other US Agencies are hamstrung, of course. They can't just come out and say any of it, because that statement would potentially be useful to our enemies.

But this story needs to be told.

Shame heaping upon shame for what's left of American Journalism for not providing the most basic historical context for what is happening.

Muro deGrizeco Jun 13, 2023

How would D-Day have gone if the landing details were known by the Nazi regime?

How much longer would Enigma intercepts have be useful, if the breaking of the code system had been discovered?

We have secrets to keep.

We have enemies who want to do us harm.

We have traitors like #trump who have betrayed us.

We have a nation which doesn't think much about the #HybridWar we are in.

We have to change that.

Will Allen Jun 13, 2023

@murodegrizeco I was literally just talking with a friend about an incident leading up to D-Day in which a loose lipped person casually let slip a reference to "getting a break" from his work in a certain number of weeks. Just said casually, in public. The Cloaks and Daggers swooped in, questioned him for days, determined he was an idiot, not a spy, and revoked his clearance.

BeckyBSF Jun 13, 2023

@willallen Agree. Many new systems are probably being developed as we speak to counteract trump’s criminality. Everything is compromised and the American taxpayer is going to pay for these new systems. Worse yet how many people probably died due to being compromised by trump. Very sad times for our nation.

Evelyn Jun 13, 2023

@willallen @qurlyjoe So, what you’re saying is, because of TFG’s treason, in a few years I might be very glad I know a smattering of Russian?

William Hughes Jun 13, 2023

The worst part about this is that the appropriate punishment for this would be called "over the top" or political prosecution or whatever if it were applied to the former guy.

People who only know about classified intelligence or spies from media presentations don't understand the monumental scale of damage done by SIMPLY REMOVING those materials from the protected areas they reside in.

Trump didn't even have to work to disseminate that info. People with agendas and loyalties have been in and out of M-a-L. They easily could have accessed those documents without any help from Trump. Not to mention any spies with actual spy skills.

to the moon and back Jun 14, 2023

@wdhughes I remember a podcast episode by @MichaelMoore060 where he just walked in the front door of M-a-L. Nobody tried to detain him or question why he was there.

Recharge The Protogen Jul 1, 2023

@dana @wdhughes You might've gotten the wrong Michael.

Mike Fraser Jun 13, 2023

@willallen And you guys will most likely find a way to re-elect him....

@batyalee 🌿Jun 13, 2023

@willallen I appreciate you raising these subjects. I’ve assumed that TFG was conducting zero sum strategies and transactional relationships over his entire time in the White House. The documents and other evidence at issue in the current federal case against him and his assistant are obviously only the tip of the iceberg. I expect the stories will drip out and repercussions discovered, written about, and discussed for years (if not decades).

Gregg Alley Jun 13, 2023

@willallen Why do they automatically grant a Top Secret security clearance to a random idiot that got elected president?

Rocketeer Jun 13, 2023

@Galley @willallen

I think they assumed a random idiot wouldn’t become President, what an oversight 👀

Jill Minor Jun 13, 2023

@willallen exactly what I’ve been thinking. He took it to sell it and to do any kind of reasonable national security due diligence we have to assume he did sell it. The only hope for any of this information is that he took *so much* that he’s too lazy/stupid to have hired smart people to go through it all and disseminate it to the highest bidder(s).

Litzz11 Jun 13, 2023

@willallen Remember Valerie Plame? That was ONE agent. And they were more than happy to compromise her and every single one of her assets to get their war.

Republicans have no concern for the safety of Americans or their allies. They've lost any sense of decency. And it didn't start with Trump. It started years before.

OtownKim Jun 13, 2023

@Litzz11 @willallen Republicans are and have always been Domestic Terrorists!

Kyle Memoir 🍉🐧Jun 13, 2023

@Litzz11 @willallen

Trump, like Canada's CrackMayor, Rob Ford of some years back (brother of current Ontario premier Doug), is just a cudgel for the RWNJ haters. He's an unwell, partial human being who lends himself to instrumentalization. Each seemed/seem to enjoy it, but Trump comes across as a truly sociopathic, narcissistic sadist, whereas Rob appeared to have some latent humanity buried somewhere down in the mess.

BlueDot🇺🇦Jun 13, 2023

It was in an article about Rob Ford that I first saw the word "bumblefuck."

@Litzz11 @willallen

caseyjonesed Jun 13, 2023

@Litzz11 @willallen
started with Nixon and then Reagan and then every put America last Republican since then.

Litzz11 Jun 13, 2023

@caseyjonesed @willallen And Roger Stone ties them all together. What a wretched stain on the nation.

Catmama 🐈Jun 13, 2023

Even more horrifying is that he will never even be indicted for any of that because there is no concrete proof 😠 But, as you say, DoD and IC have to assume even the janitor at MAL has seen those documents.

ebbtide Jun 13, 2023

@willallen My hope is that the judge in Miami feels the same as you.

MemphisDaPlaya 🎲🎲Jun 13, 2023

@willallen
Trump has done far worse damage to the intelligence community than even Aldrich Ames.

Dimples Jun 13, 2023

@willallen
It’s not just Trump.
It’s every enabler. It’s every family member. The cast of this tragedy includes a far larger group than just trump himself. Any Republican - nay any person in a position of power or influence who defends Trumps actions should be cast in the same light.

Trump handles people like a mob boss. He has compromising information on so many people ( likely via the hack of the GOP by Russia in 2016) and he keeps them naked and afraid. Alarming.

Rocketeer Jun 13, 2023

To think a sitting President would do this to us is unimaginable and beyond a betrayal to America. We need to hang the man on a gallows, remind everyone you can’t just sell out your country.

Stargeezer Smith Jun 13, 2023

@willallen
I worked for DOD for 35 years, and agree completely with your assessment. The level of TFG's crimes are literally incompressible.

Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈Jun 13, 2023

@willallen if this isn't Treason then what is?

Nonya Bidniss 🥥🌴Jun 13, 2023

@willallen Speaking as a veteran, senior civil servant, and former IC member,

Well said. 👏

msglincoln Jun 13, 2023

@willallen I should think former CIA director Mike Pompeo might have something to say about this. I haven't seen him around lately.

(((Cindy Weinstein)))Jun 13, 2023

@willallen. https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/10/leaked-dozens-of-cia-informants-killed-captured-or-compromised-report/

Leaked: Dozens of CIA informants killed, captured or compromised: Report

Last week, top U.S. counterintelligence officials warned Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) stations and bases worldwide that a concerning number of

American Military News

Anvil of Truth Jun 13, 2023

@willallen Excellent post, thank you!

Ricardo Harvin Jun 13, 2023

@willallen It's literal treason.

U8336Tea Jun 13, 2023

@willallen c'mon man, we all know Trump isn't a Russian spy. He's just a self-obsessed cunt and holding state secrets makes him feel like a big boy

Erik Haugen Jun 13, 2023

@willallen but, 2 things:

1.) He could have easily traded secrets like that without moving documents to mar-a-lago or whatever. I mean, the mishandling of the documents seems orthogonal to whether he sold secrets or not?

2.) Other presidents and officials have inappropriately stored documents in their garage or whatever. Are we particularly worried about those? I don't think so, unless something new is discovered about how they were used.

The indictments talk about him showing military maps/etc or whatever to non-cleared people in his circle, though.

David G. Smith Jun 14, 2023

@willallen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg - Wikipedia

canusfeminacanis Jun 14, 2023

Seriously, you might want to point that out to a constitutional lawyer and then to the Five Eyes gang.

Because I 'm pretty sure some of them will have WORDS for the U.S. if T. rump is not hauled over the coals and roasted for your July 4 celebrations.

Brad Patrick Jun 14, 2023

@willallen Amen. 100%. We don't yet know, and may not for a generation, the full scope of horror unleashed by this mofo.

ティージェーグレェ Jun 14, 2023

@willallen It's almost as if the mercenary industrial is complex?

Too complex for anyone's good.

Chancerubbage Jun 14, 2023

@willallen you don’t seem to be counting what we are unaware is missing, only the stuff left behind.