dsmaster7173important rulepost
starship_lizardWhat's a tankie?
chalkmanHard-core authoritarian communist. The kinda peeps who support Stalin and shit
aMalayaliStalin
Certain aspects of Stalin? Or in general?
peanuts4lifeBoth. Fascist apologist like to cherry pick palatable characteristics of figures like Stalin, or Hitler, or Andrew Jackson in order to destigmatize thier idolatry of these figures. These "certain aspects" are the tip of the wedge they use to destroy rationality and peace.
A reasonable person who would like to discuss the benefits of communism would point to the value of labor, advantages of unions, and the dignity of the worker, not the evil, paranoid, and violent person of Stalin.
Always, the stink of fascism follows the idolization of so called "great men." Excuses after excuses.
nonsense, communists were on the front line to kill people like hitler. this is holocaust denial
The Holocaust most definitely happened, and was perpetuated by the Nazis. Please don't accuse me of this.
Communism, or to be most specific, Marxism, was most definitely aligned against Hitler.
Stalin, was not. He would have watched Hitler kill all of Europe had the Nazis not attacked Russia. Same as the united states if Japan had not attacked them.
this is incorrect. the USSR made a suggestion to Czechoslovakia to make a defensive pact in case of nazi invasion. they also suggested this to poland. the polish did not like the idea. poland teamed up with nazi germany to invade czechoslovakia, and czechoslovakia preferred the help of the west, which backstabbed them and did not assist them despite declarations to the contrary. this meant that the soviet union could not intervene early in a large alliance against nazi germany. instead, they had to rebuild after the civil war as quickly as possible. they are on record knowing the germans were going to attack well before the war.
it should also be noted that poland invaded and annexed parts of independent ukraine and russia prior to WW2. the west was hoping the nazis and poland would both invade russia together. the polish ambassador to germany was in fact favorable to handing danzig over to nazi germany, and is on record about their surprise at the attack on poland.
why you have an obsession about stalin is beyond me. especially in regards to advocating for violence against marginalized groups that are usually socialist 'tankies'. the soviet union does not exist anymore. grow up.
I'm not obsessed with Stalin. I'm also not a Holocaust denier. You really seem keen on saying inflammatory things about me without any preceding context.
I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don't have anything against socialist, being one myself.
I have a beef with apologist for failed communist states like the soviet onion. I feel they deeply misrepresent socialism.
I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don’t have anything against socialist, being one myself.
this is an american/european thing, not a rest of the world thing. i am not an american, i live elsewhere right now and i am also trans. you simply have been propagandized, and you believe it because you are a product of your environment.
you are a holocaust denier if you deny that communists fought fascism and instead supported nazism.
It's a semantic argument, then. To me a fascist if a Donald Trump. To me, Facisim is a broad set of characteristics which can be attributed to people outside of the context of Nazi Germany. For example, I might call an ancient emperor a fascist.
Facisim to you is a political movement linked only to the Nazis and thier allies.
That's not unfair. It's a different definition of the word.
no, i agree with that statement. i disagree with the statement that communists (which are called tankies in the original word) are fascist.
Trump, even if he werent fascist, has interlocuters that very obviously are. I would not call someone before the 1800s a fascist, maybe a protofascist. Fascism is distinctly measured by its reaction to socialism, which is a distinct set of ideas proposed largely by Kropotkin, Marx and Engels, Lenin, and Hegel while under the influence of industrial society. If you read Mussolini's Corporatism, it becomes very obvious what fascism is and how they use socialist organizing tactics and even terminology to undermine our movements. Whether you are communist or anarchist, it doesn't matter, they subvert the method of organization. Franco subverted anarchists in Spain with National Syndicalism, and the Nazis subverted ANTIFA in Germany with National Socialism.
Either you have a misunderstanding of what a tankie is in common vernacular, or I do.
My definition of a tankie is as follows: A "tankie" is a term that originated in British politics, referring to individuals who unconditionally supported actions of the Soviet Union, including the use of military force to suppress dissent. Today, it's often used more broadly to describe those who uncritically support or defend perceived socialist or communist authoritarian regimes, sometimes even in the face of human rights abuses. The term is typically used pejoratively within leftist circles.
I don't believe a communist is necessarily a tankie, but a tankie would call themselves a communist.
Personally, as an American, I would never fly an American flag. To me, it represents the violence of the state, the genocide of the indigenous people, and capitalism.
I believe that the Soviet union, as well as some modern communist states, have largely failed to represent the Marxist vision, and I am extremely critical of people who are embrace the theater of certain communist states.
I would like to point out that the word tankie was used to refer to people that specifically supported the Hungarian communists request for military aid against revolution in Hungary. We can very obviously see how anti-communist revolution in Hungary is going for Hungarian trans people right now. So in the original sense of the word, I am a tankie.
It is definitely a word that has gotten a lot of strange meanings now.
The issue with a lot of communist states is that it is a nonstop struggle against foreign powers that seek to exploit your people. Failure is unacceptable of course, but its not because they want to or planned it that way. By all means, if an anarchist project somehow took over my region and was successful, I would support it to the hilt. That is unlikely, the biggest group in my area is communist. They even support trans rights!
Interesting. I don't want to put a burden on you, but you might want to consider that Western people who use the pejorative "tankie" might not be ideologically opposed to you in any particular way, and if you were to instead reply first with what you did just now they might even agree with you.
I got really triggered when you said I was a Holocaust denier. Maybe you felt the same way with me comparing Stalin with hitler and Andrew Jackson.
I'm sorry if I made you feel attacked or uncomfortable as a Trans individual. While I personally don't identify as a communist, I have a strong empathy for Marxist. I can only imagine the fear and anxiety you must feel at home, and I hope that you and your allies succeed in building a better world for yourselves.
I appreciate that we began to understand each other. It might be that I don't talk with western socialists enough, I use original definitions for everything.
Likewise, I don't speak to many people outside of the US.
I think you'll find that westerners tend to be more loose with thier definitions. We adopt analogies and political shorthands very quickly.
Additionally, many "progressive" Americans like me are extremely critical of nationalism. Capitalist and conversation Christian propaganda is everywhere here, and it cultivates a short of hyper sensitively to certain subjects. I'm very critical of states, especially socially conservative or militaristic ones.
In your situation, supporting a communist party might be your best choice, just like mine is voting for capitalist Democrats (over Republicans).
I hope you make more Western friends. You'll surely teach them new things and vice versa.
I like you and I respect you. I need to go to sleep (it's 1:15am here). Take care!
yes i had to work, have a good sleep 💤
JasBCWe can very obviously see how anti-communist revolution in Hungary is going for Hungarian trans people right now.
To blame "anti-communist revolution" for the decline of LGBT-rights in hungary when much of the anti-LGBT legislation came about near 20-years after Hungary became a democracy *and during when the Hungarian Socialist Party, the successor of the Communist Party, was still the larhest force in Hungarian politics is disingenuous.
I would like to point out that the word tankie was used to refer to people that specifically supported the Hungarian communists request for military aid against revolution in Hungary. (...) So in the original sense of the word, I am a tankie.
...it's nice that you're honest about being anti-democratic and that you have no qualms about calling yourself tankie in that context. Are you a "little green man" as well?
I'm not a man, and its very obvious that I am not a man given pronouns in bio and my username.
Soviet SnakeYou did not addressed a single point lol you're a broken disc, say the same thing all the time
QuerellerDo you deny the Molotov–Ribbentrop pact and the illegal attack on Poland by the Soviet union under its leader Josef Stalin?
Do you deny that the west signed NAPs with the Nazis as part of the agreement prior to Czechoslovakia's annexation? Do you also deny that the Soviet Union saved approximately 200,000 Jewish lives by annexing Eastern Poland?
No why should I ? A non aggression pact is not the same than occupying another country. The Jews which were deported to other parts of the Union were in deed saved from the Nazis.
I would support any country occupying a country if it saved hundreds of thousands of lives from death by fascism, without question. If you do not, you are evil.
SilverstringsSo what about the Soviet Union doing ethnic cleansings in the parts of Poland they conquered? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939%E2%80%931946)
from what i am reading, these are polish military officer's bodies. poland's military was known for pogroms against jews during the nazi occupation, and that was a sentence of death in the soviet union. as for the other claims, many civilian populations, including many millions of russians, were moved beyond the urals in order to evade firebombing campaigns. some of these groups stayed, but many left after the war.
sexual crimes happen in war and people who commit them should be killed.
Oh so it's fine that the Soviet Union displaced their government and murdered anyone who opposed them?
it is fine to save hundreds of thousands of lives from firebombing, yes. war is never pretty and you must protect civilians by moving them away from the ever-advancing front line.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Soviet_Union
im not going to discuss black book of communism, are you even a socialist? the man who wrote such things advocated for millions dead in the middle east
What black book of communism are you talking about? I linked you a wikipedia article. These are real historical events that you're willfully ignoring.
Werth, Nicholas (1999). "A State against Its People: Violence, Repression, and Terror in the Soviet Union". In Courtois, Stéphane (ed.). The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression. Translated by Mark Kraemer; Jonathan Murphy (illustrated hardcover ed.). Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press. p. 164. ISBN 9780674076082. Retrieved 2 December 2021 – via Google Books.
There are dozens of sources listed on the bottom, one possibly questionable source means the entire thing is made up?
Ethnic cleansing is when you kill military officers, no I'm not just trying to twist things into "genocide" to score cheap political points
Not when it kills millions through starvation --> holodomor
we discussed that elsewhere
https://www.villagevoice.com/2020/11/21/in-search-of-a-soviet-holocaust/
The only evil person here is you. How can you not only defend but celebrate a regime that during its reign of terror during the occupation of Poland put over 500-thousand Poles in prison, committed the Katyn Massacre, deported 1.7-million Poles to Siberia, raped over a 100-thousand women, and murdered over 150-thousand additonal Poles in cold blood, and then robbed Poland of the independence it had achieved after WW1, after 200-years of attempted cultural genocide by the Russian Empire?
I am half-Polish, my father was born in Communist Poland - tell me how your crackhead ideology justifies your abhorrent views. Tell me how the Soviets rounding up innocent Poles and murdering them in cold blood, like happened to the families and friends of my grandparents, is to be celebrated as the Soviets "saving" anyone; how subjugating the Polish people and state for the next 40-years was something good.
You're simply a disgusting PoS, a certified A-grade fucking tankie.
jeez, i wish you were deported to siberia, youre fucking dumb and should be breaking rocks with your forehead
It's very clear you're mentally ill. Bye.
It's clear she like to pick fights but maybe you could put that in a way that isn't disparaging to people with mental illnesses?
Done?
Threatens users
Your historical notes are technically correct, and Stalin did even attempt to reach a pact with France to limit the potential expansion of Nazi Germany. However, once those initiatives failed, Stalin had no issue about pacting with Hitler instead to invade third countries together, which highlights how Stalin's first priority was improving his geopolitical position, rather than an ideological opposition to nazism.
Stalin had no issue about pacting with Hitler instead to invade third countries together, which highlights how Stalin’s first priority was improving his geopolitical position, rather than an ideological opposition to nazism.
Terrible understanding of the sequence of events. The bartering of Czechoslovakia by the West was itself the first invasion, and it was sanctioned by the west. Notably, the Soviet Union did not cede ground to the Nazis, they prevented that ground from being gained and those people from being slaughtered. The West made a NAP with the Nazis and handed vast swathes of people over for extermination. The Nazis were bound to invade Poland no matter what, and it should be noted that France made no offensive push during the invasion of Poland in order to make it happen faster.
Improving geopolitical position is ideological opposition to Nazism, which had always postured itself as an enemy to communism.
BASED
This is myopic. Stalin invaded Poland because it refused to cooperate with the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany. The Nazis and USSR weren't just raiding North Africa cooperatively, it was a geographical necessity to the Soviets attacking Nazi Germany that they be able to have their military on Germany's border!
How the hell are the Soviets supposed to attack Nazi Germany if Poland says the Soviets aren't welcome on its land?
I am of the strong opinion that fascism doesn't care if you call yourself a communist, a capitalist, or a Democrat. If someone promotes a state which strips the power of local and individual labor for it's own use; cultivates violence as a means of domestic control; supports expansionism; and finally the consolidation of power under a personality; I oppose it, and call it what it is.
vague criteria. you can argue any country you dont like is under a dictatorship of whatever and is led by a cult of personality. you should be concerned about more realistic things, like supporting unions in your country, helping marginalized people, that sort of thing. not punching down at socialists.
My comments are split now, so I'll let you read my other one. I would just like to emphasize that I consider myself a socialist, and that it's not really that vague of a criteria for the purposes of an Internet argument. It's just broad. I believe all current world superpowers current share elements of fascism which I despise and oppose.
i agree that america is genocidal. no reason for you to hatepost about communists when we agree with so much.
What's your excuse for the holodomor?
famine is terrible, and it was caused by western sanctions and invasions of the soviet union and even other regions of the world. please note that many western armies looted and burned their way through ukraine during the civil war, and america itself occupied vladivostok in the east even. it is also important to think that if the soviet union sought to kill all ukrainians, why didnt they? after ww2, there was no one stopping them.
it is also important to note that almost every region of the world experienced famine during this time, and these famines led to radicalization in many forms. my grandfather was a survivor of famine from similar causes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
The Holodomor happened before WW2 dipshit. Tankies really can't resist genocide denial huh? Fits right in with you defending the Soviet Union teaming up with the nazis.
i am aware that it is before ww2, so was the occupations of ukraine and the far east by western powers.
Stalin purposely diverted shipments of grain away from Ukraine, he made a deliberate effort to starve and repress his political enemies.
Stalin pushed a cultural and physical genocide in order to subjugate the Ukranian people. He pushed the narrative that they were not an independent nation or nationality hence "the ukraine" not Ukraine.
hence “the ukraine” not Ukraine.
Russian literally doesn't have articles! There is no "the" to use! And even if there was, it wouldn't mean anything. That's just an artifact of how some westerners talked about it.
https://www.villagevoice.com/2020/11/21/in-search-of-a-soviet-holocaust/
You're the dipshit if you think that WW2 was the first time the USSR was invaded. Are you not familiar with the incredible number of capitalist countries that invaded during the Russian Civil War in order to reverse the revolution? I don't think it's particularly relevant to the famine, but assuming she meant WW2 is ridiculous.
https://www.villagevoice.com/2020/11/21/in-search-of-a-soviet-holocaust/
You're a spineless coward, just admit you're fine with genocide and totalitarianism so long as they have a red flag.