lauraolinJun 13, 2023
Carl T. Bergstrom

Not surprising that today's New York Times article about the singularity launders bullshit for big tech with just enough skepticism for plausible deniability.

More impressive: the article quotes 15 different people.

Sundar Pichai
Reid Hoffman
Bill Gates
Elon Musk
Sam Altman
Baldur Bjarnason
John von Neumann
Irving John Good
Hans Moravec
Ray Kurzweil
Rodney Brooks
Jerry Kaplan
Ryan Schaeffer
Eric Schmidt
Charlies Stross

Yes, every single one of them is a man.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/11/technology/silicon-valley-confronts-the-idea-that-the-singularity-is-here.html

Silicon Valley Confronts the Singularity

The frenzy over artificial intelligence may be ushering in the long-awaited moment when technology goes wild. Or maybe it’s the hype that is out of control.

The New York Times
Jun 12, 2023 at 6:33amWeb
Show threadCarl T. BergstromJun 12, 2023

(Mostly for @cstross)

IMO sources should rarely if ever be blamed for the gender balance of a story or the tenor of a story.

(I have started responding to queries about generative AI with a list of women who know more than I do about the subject and an offer to discuss further if they are unavailable — but I don’t think anyone contacted by a reporter is obligated to do this.)

Show threadJ. Nathan Matias 🦣Jun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom @cstross yeah, I often do this too. Having published research about gender bias in journalism, it's really hard to unsee, but somehow very hard for many people to see or value in the first place :(
Show threadChris ChapmanJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom Also (mostly) executives or otherwise who were presumably chosen for their big names (cf. "male") and not for relevant or current technical depth.
Show threadRuth MottramJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom
Show threadKeith DevlinJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom Aside from the extreme gender imbalance it's a bizarre list in containing some deep thinkers with some regularly-smart guys who just got lucky
Show threadRenéeJun 13, 2023

@KeithDevlin Right?? Like, Brooks's annual predictions (and holding himself accountable to same) is some of the best hype-free thinking in the field. Vs Altman who is just in the rich kid's club because of the right place and a total lack of ethical boundaries.

Sundar instead of the expert in the field he fired for being too concerned about the ethical implications, welll

@ct_bergstrom

Show threadJW prince of CPHJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom Also, at least to a casual scan, every single one of them seems to have a major vested interest in pushing the hype...
Show threadaardvarkJun 12, 2023
@jwcph @ct_bergstrom well, except for the dead guy
Show threadRenéeJun 12, 2023

@jwcph Stross wrote a book literally called Singularity Sky 20ya, and he's a SciFi author who (from what I know of Stross) prefers to be way out *ahead* of the hype. There are woman who write AI specfic, ofc, but he's one who actually does belong there.

There are MANY women in AI R&D and comp ethics who would have been far better equipped to speak to the tech than the C-Suite VCs.

Also when those dudes return your calls it's bc it's in their interest to do so. For the bubble.

@ct_bergstrom

Show thread: j@fabrica:~/src;  Jun 13, 2023
@reneestephen @jwcph @ct_bergstrom Yeah, Charles Stross @cstross is not like the others: https://wandering.shop/@cstross/110533197238691680
Charlie Stross (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] The AI singularity is horseshit. Warmed-over Christian apocalpse horseshit (minus the God/Jesus nonsense). Roko's Basilisk should be the final clue: it emerges logically from the whole farrago of nonsense but it boils down to AI Satan punishing the acausal infidels for their AI original sin. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck: or in this case, a Christian heresy.

The Wandering Shop
Show threadZorro Notorious MEB 😡Jun 12, 2023
@jwcph @ct_bergstrom John Von Neumann and Irving John Good do not have a major interest in pursing they hype. They are deceased.
Show threadJW prince of CPHJun 13, 2023
@AlgoCompSynth @ct_bergstrom I did say something about a quick glance, didn't I...? 😝
Show threadBaldur BjarnasonJun 12, 2023

@ct_bergstrom I had odd vibes about this three weeks ago https://toot.cafe/@baldur/110401708006276526

😕

Baldur Bjarnason (@[email protected])

Talking to reporters is always stressful. Not just the fear that you might get misquoted or taken out of context, tho the incredibly rare times that I get asked it’s about the dev side, so there’s less to get wrong than for those talking about research But it’s just plain worrying when the topic is the hype about language models and you come off a call with a reporter thinking “it sure sounded like they really didn’t understand what Bender and Gebru said in the Stochastic Parrots paper.”

Toot Café
Show threadklausfiend has movedJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom I hope they got a fresh one from John von Neumann, who no doubt has many thoughts on present-day AI having been dead almost 70 years now. 🤣
Show threadZorro Notorious MEB 😡Jun 12, 2023

@klausfiend @ct_bergstrom John Von Neumann is one of my heroes - I learned programming on a computer he helped design.

He did have some scathing opinions on technology advances like pseudo-random numbers and floating-point arithmetic.

Show threadklausfiend has movedJun 13, 2023
@AlgoCompSynth @ct_bergstrom yeah, von Neumann is a titan in the field for a reason ... but quoting him for a piece like this feels to me like someone just Googled quotes from "famous computer scientist" and that's as far as they got.
Show threadZorro Notorious MEB 😡Jun 13, 2023
@klausfiend @ct_bergstrom I haven't read the article because articles like that are usually mierda de toro. I am curious what quote from Von Neumann they used; his wisecrack about random numbers is the only well-known one.
Show threadLilyshomeJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom Of Course! All Wars are started primarily by men. We have never learned.
Show threadGadgetGavJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom The point being the NYT is biased or it’s only men (and a certain type of man) who believes in this stuff?
Show threadAlexander ShendiJun 12, 2023

@ct_bergstrom

These are the usual suspects, but why is @cstross blowing the singularity apocalypse horn?

Show threadCharlie StrossJun 12, 2023
@alexshendi @ct_bergstrom If you read the article, then (assuming I haven't been wildly misquoted then lied to) you'd see I'm deeply cynical about the whole AI singularitarian nonsense. I'm at least one of the contrarian voices.
Show threadLazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈Jun 12, 2023
@cstross @alexshendi @ct_bergstrom "We need a naysayer for balance, ....but only one so we don't get carried away and upset the Rich People."
Show threadKevin MarksJun 12, 2023
@cstross @alexshendi @ct_bergstrom see https://xoxo.zone/@KevinMarks/110530452546001565 for a screenshot of Charlie's contribution
Kevin Marks (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image I suspect @cstross said a bit more than this to the NYT, but I'm also enjoying the idea of Accelerando as a serious futurist book. Do we need a “I was promised spacefaring virtual lobsters, but all I got was this lame chatbot” t-shirt?

XOXO Zone
Show threadJeremy KahnJun 12, 2023

@alexshendi @ct_bergstrom

Also @baldur is 100% a contrarian at least as vigorous as @cstross

but still a dude.

Show threadResunaJun 13, 2023
@cstross @alexshendi @ct_bergstrom I haven't spoken to reporters since being wildly misquoted and lied to in the late '80s, so it's likelier than it might sound.
Show threadJeroen BaertJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom Sigh. So tiring.
Show threadFrank Bennett 🇯🇵Jun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom We'll soon be calling it Silly Con Valley just to retain our mental equilibrium.
Show threadNerdiCorgiJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom Let's be fair, Elon barely counts as a human being.
Show threadKristFistJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom #popthepatriarchy #theImmortalityKey
Show threadaardvarkJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom and rich
Show threadAviel RoshwaldJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom I’m more convinced that we may have reached (or perhaps long since passed) the #Stupidularity: the moment when the consequences of humanity’s collective stupidity surpass its capacity for intelligent self-correction.
Show threadKris SamselJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom Example of a woman’s voice: There is no gate, no lock, no bolt that you can set upon the freedom of the mind.” — Virginia Woolf (Wow! Women are equal!) NYT ever apologize for Iraqi lies? Yellow caked uranium? Anthrax lies. CFR lacky’s…
Show threadJoeJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom He lost me with his summary of Von Neumann as a "computer scientist". Read (or skim) this tribute by Stanislaw Ulam if you want to know more about one of the greatest minds of the 20th century. https://web.archive.org/web/20210215095053/https://www.ams.org/journals/bull/1958-64-03/S0002-9904-1958-10189-5/S0002-9904-1958-10189-5.pdf
Wayback Machine

Show threadJudeJun 12, 2023
@ct_bergstrom @briankrebs The artificial plagiarism machine is unsurprisingly described by all male pundits in a diminished NYT. Too bad they didn’t bother to interview Emily Bender or Timnit Gebru.
Show threadNoah CookJun 12, 2023

@ct_bergstrom Related, but anyone who writes about "Von Neumann" and only refers to John is someone who has no business writing about the history of computing.

I consider that one of my "brown M&M" tests. If Klara goes unmentioned, the author can be safely ignored.

Show threadpr3d4t0r CiuranaJun 13, 2023
@ct_bergstrom - Great read. What does each of them being a man have to do with anything?
Show threadCarl T. BergstromJun 13, 2023

@ciurana

Individually, nothing.

Collectively, everything.

Show threadJeremy KahnJun 13, 2023

@ct_bergstrom @ciurana

Indeed. This list of sources thrown together in a hot minute is an excellent counterweight that WAS available before this article was written

https://dair-community.social/@emilymbender/110442173959696208

Emily M. Bender (she/her) (@[email protected])

You could even use Hinton's "realization" as a hook and then pivot to covering the work of and talking with: Ruha Benjamin Safiya Noble Cathy O'Niel Sasha Costanza-Chock Brandeis Marshall Deb Raji Abeba Birhane Meredith Whittaker Karla Ortiz and of course Timnit Gebru and Meg Mitchell, who were fired by Google over our paper discussing the dangers of large language models (aka, to Hinton "AI"). >>

Distributed AI Research Community
Show threadMike Taylor 🦕Jun 13, 2023
@ct_bergstrom @ciurana That reply is so perfect, it should be taught in communication courses.
Show threadPaul CantrellJun 13, 2023
@ciurana
I see you’re new to this planet.
Show threadpr3d4t0r CiuranaJun 15, 2023
@inthehands - No, I just don’t see contretemps on everything I read. People try to polarize gender everything for no good reason. I was being facetious.
Show threadTane Piper ⁂Jun 13, 2023
@ciurana @ct_bergstrom That you had to ask the question itself is the problem.
Show threadLotusJun 13, 2023

@tanepiper They might not be familiar with the field and how many important ai ethicists are women (I think thats the point Carl was making.)

I mean this respectfully: your and a few other commentors are not helpful, this shouldve been used as an opportunity to educate.

Show threadSimon FrankauJun 13, 2023

@LotusHopper @tanepiper I think sometimes it's hard to distinguish genuine questions from someone "just asking questions".

When they reply, about an article that "launders bullshit for big tech with just enough skepticism for plausible deniability", with "Great read", I get suspicious they're being more contrarian than unfamiliar.

I still try to engage with such posts (when I do) by answering the question straight, but... I find it hard to blame those that don't.

Show threadLotusJun 13, 2023
@sgf Thanks for pointing that out, didnt look at it that way.
Show threadNathan SalwenJun 13, 2023
@ciurana @ct_bergstrom I think you made the point. If being a man weren't important, what are the odds 15 in a row would be men.
Show threadRobert BurgholzerJun 13, 2023
@ct_bergstrom I boosted this because "laundering bullshit" is such a concise and accurate expression of the situation here. Bravo
Show threadJanet VertesiJun 13, 2023
@ct_bergstrom I mean, we gotta take pity on these guys, right? Their stocks are falling!
Show threadjz.tuskJun 13, 2023

@ct_bergstrom

Quite a nice haul of people worth blocking in the replies here.

Show threadHelgeJun 13, 2023
@ct_bergstrom NYT doing its level worst to add to the AI techno-hype cycle. Very sad. I'm guessing it'll get them clicks.
Show threadsynlogicJun 13, 2023
@ct_bergstrom they werent picked because they were men