@atpfm @siracusa @marcoarment @caseyliss SwiftUI isn’t responsible for what you dislike about System Settings.

By default, SwiftUI uses the AppKit widgets. You have to *opt in* to different styles, which System Settings has done.

And you can quibble about those styles, for sure. But this is about the designers, not the technology.

Difference between the screenshots below:

.formStyle(.grouped)
.toggleStyle(.switch)

Otherwise it’s the same code in both cases.

@siracusa Sure, but I buy the design rationale offered by CFed at @gruber’s WWDC show last year, even if I don’t much care for all the gray lines and trapped negative space.

I think the biggest challenge for Mac aficionados going forward is the reality that there just aren’t many designers around anymore who’ve ever designed Mac apps, including the head of software design at Apple. A lot of the current generation of designers grew up with iPads.

@clarko @siracusa But there are aspects of this new Mac aesthetic that are objectively bad. Not just new or different, but clearly not good. @Viditb describes one such pattern here:

https://blog.viditb.com/redesigning-the-macos-ventura-form-layout/

@gruber @siracusa @Viditb Yup. But there were aspects of early Aqua that were objectively bad. And brushed metal, and green felt, and Helvetica Neue Ultralight. They’ve been swinging and missing for decades, but also cleaning up as they go.

I’ve been working on hardware and software this whole time and I sure as hell haven’t been proud of everything that shipped. Not always my call.

Lots of arguments at any company about scope, ship date, and quality. Cheap fast good. That’s the job.