ᛕᎥᕼᗷᗴᖇᑎᗴ丅ᎥᑕᔕMay 30, 2023

#Life must have emerged from the physical world. This emergence must be understood if our knowledge is not to degenerate (more than it has already) into a collection of disjoint specialized disciplines.

… #physics and #biology require different levels of #models … physical theory is described by rate-dependent dynamical #laws that have no #memory, while #evolution depends, at least to some degree, on #control of dynamics by rate-independent memory #structures.”

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12009802_The_physics_of_symbols_Bridging_the_epistemic_cut

Show threadPatMay 30, 2023

@Kihbernetics

“…physical theory is described by rate-dependent dynamical #laws that have no #memory…”

The laws of physics require memory. Motion requires memory. Time implies memory.

Show threadᛕᎥᕼᗷᗴᖇᑎᗴ丅ᎥᑕᔕMay 31, 2023

@Pat

Not according to Howard Pattee, they don’t.
Read the paper and see if you can find a flaw in his reasoning. I can’t.

Show threadPatMay 31, 2023

@Kihbernetics

That paper is about epistemology. I’m referring to physics, where memory exists whether anybody’s around to know it or not.

Show threadᛕᎥᕼᗷᗴᖇᑎᗴ丅ᎥᑕᔕJun 1, 2023

@Pat

Care to provide an example of this “physical memory”?

Show threadPat

@Kihbernetics

Contrails in a cloud chamber.

Jun 1, 2023 at 4:54pmWeb
Show threadᛕᎥᕼᗷᗴᖇᑎᗴ丅ᎥᑕᔕJun 1, 2023

@Pat
I believe that is just a #record of an interaction between two (or more) physical #structures.

Memory requires an entire physical #system able to preserve the #information contained in this record from one moment in time to another until it is retrieved (by the system) and used for something else.

According to #HvFoerster, the “integrated functional circuit” for #Cognition requires three things:

1⃣ #Perception
2⃣ #Memory, and
3⃣ #Prediction

Prediction is essential for drawing (memory-based) #inferences

” without which perception degenerates into #sensation and memory into #recording”.

See pp 105-106 in the quite interesting collection of his thoughts Understanding Understanding

https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/b97451

Understanding Understanding

SpringerLink