not really interested in getting into warhammer, but the space nuns and orcs (orks lololol) are kinda neat

feel like they'd be fun to paint

but also super mutants are basically orcs

not feeling the giant ass mechs they have

first they're not mini at all ololol

also most of them look real boxy and like they were definitely not designed by engineers

@worthlessbums The orks or the space marines?

Old ork dreadnaughts are fuckin ace

@DarkestKale space marine mechs yeah

also a lot of the non-space marine vehicles of other factions are kinda boxy looking too

@worthlessbums in-universe, what they have is what they *have*.

The tech for designing/making stuff like Dreads is... gone. The imperium is relying on STLs (standardised manufacturing plants they sometimes find, but often end up fucking up) and don't have many - so there's a reason the designs mostly stayed.

@DarkestKale bethesda seems very reluctant to fuck with the elder scrolls formula

very open to absolutely fucking with fallout

@worthlessbums Let's remember, though, Morrowind was a fucking fever dream of a setting - so that *is* fucking with it.

But ultimately, yeah. Calcify right over the moneypot.

@DarkestKale imo morrowind really is the start of the current/modern elder scrolls world, like how fo3 was a fairly clean break from fo1/2

i love daggerfall but that is way more generic high fantasy and mechanically very different

@worthlessbums You're my expert on this, so I give you reign on this discussion.

But my point is: they *did* fuck with it, but have calcified.

Because that's what IP's do - they either wither off or they calcify over the money.

@DarkestKale i guess my overarching point is mechanically very little changed from morrowind to oblivion to skyrim. if you get An Elder Scrolls Game you are hit with all the big fantasy tropes and mechanics morrowind had

sure you can't leap across skyrim by cheesing alchemy like in mw, but the bones are still there

@DarkestKale whereas in fallout every installation is giving you different core mechanics but keeping the aesthetic/setting flavor of the older games

the only thing that's really stayed vaguely the same between 3->4 is vats, and 76 completely gutted that due to real time multiplayer reasons

@worthlessbums Mind you, some of that sounds like tech/UI stuff, and I'd like a chart showing the timeline of ES releases vs Fallout releases.

Cause MW and Oblivion were REAL close. Skyrim? Well, Skyrim's actually VERY old too.

@DarkestKale part of it is definitely tech reasons

if you're into fo4 modding you become Very Aware that this was built on top of the skyrim/creation engine xD

in terms of releases... bethesda releases games whenever they're damned well ready lol

years between entries in both franchises

@worthlessbums Also worth noting Fallout 3 is where the console shit comes in, which becomes a huge limitation.

ES suffered (IMHO) from having to do stuff to make consoles work.

Skyrim & Oblivion's UIs were garbage.

@DarkestKale yep no lies detected

carried all the way into skyrim and fo4 as well. skyrim's is notoriously shit on pc

@worthlessbums Oblivion got maybe... twelve hours of gametime out of me before I just said 'fuck this', tried a mod to make the invent not shit, and gave up.

Never, ever, went back to it.

Skyrim's was just as bad and didn't help my thoughts.

@worthlessbums Anyway, steering back:

You don't change the shit that's causing money to pour into your pockets, until money slows its descent into your pocket.

Then, typically, corps fuck it even more.

@DarkestKale i think a large part of the problem is the 40k illustrations are gorgeous, and they really nailed their <whatever scale> minis for space marines and such

but they didn't put in the legwork for scaling up for big models

they just look fucking weird

@DarkestKale i 100% know they can do better because i have seen the star wars "minis" lololol

and they are better

@worthlessbums Also:

Older minis are 'better', because they were lead.

I still remember when they went Lead -> White Metal (ie: mostly magnesium, I think?)

Seems like they predominantly only sell plastic minis now, which are... yeah.

(and the scale? The scale has crept SO BAD from what I've read, which also might figure into what you mean)

@DarkestKale honestly i think plastic is really good these days?

i was also surprised at the quality and detail on my fallout minis which are resin (i think???)

@DarkestKale yeah but if you can do it in plastic it's cheaper, can 3d print it, less heavy, etc

what is the advantage of metal? easier to strip paint? lasts longer if your dog uses it as a chew toy?

@worthlessbums Waaaaaaay the fuck back when (early-mid 90s), Metal was 'the good detailed shit', and Plastic was 'mass produce this shit'.

The difference in quality of cast was extremely obvious.

I have some old metal and plastic minis (unpainted) here somewhere.

It's basically: old plastic stuff? You never got little seals, skulls, rivets, etc. Metal ones you did.

@worthlessbums Whether they COULD do that level of detail and chose not to (moulds are expensive!) or whether they just couldn't do it, I can't tell you.

I can just tell you what I know/remember from the time.

@worthlessbums uhm

Do you mean resin moulded or resin printed?

@DarkestKale i assume the fallout warfare minis were resin printed

they also sell stl files so

@worthlessbums yeah, ok.

You just threw me there cause you said '3d printed plastic' vs 'resin', which sorta implied the resin ones were moulded, not printed.