PwnallthethingsDebating with myself whether to actually write up the billion and twelve reasons why if the President wants to ignore the debt ceiling he needs to mint the coin, rather than use the 14th amendment, but also ... kinda feel like it will have an interested readership of somewhere between -4 and 0.
Might do it anyway, because, y'know, trillion dollar coin.
John Breen@Pwnallthethings So "TBCoin", Terra-bit-coin ?
@CharleneTeglia@Pwnallthethings I kind of don't care how they end this but it has to end; they can't be allowed to battle over paying bills they already agreed to pay in previous budgets. End the debt ceiling hostage threat forever.
mdunc11@Pwnallthethings yeah but the coin sounds sillier to the vsp so... Looks like barreling towards the end 14th we go. 🫤
PL Arango@Pwnallthethings I want Beau on one side of the trillion dollar coin, with Hunter on the other. Biden carries it with him at all times and lets the coin determine if we get his good or evil personality, like Two-Face
Óscar Morales Vivó@Pwnallthethings the best part of the trillion dollar coin is that the incredibly dumb Hollywood blockbuster that brings Nicholas Cage’s career back kinda writes itself.
Flaming Cheeto@Pwnallthethings then segway right into your movie treatment for "The trillion dollar heist"
William Johnston@Pwnallthethings The most frustrating parts of the trillion dollar coin idea are that it probably won't have a very interesting design on it, I probably won't be able to collect it, and I probably won't even be able to see it on display in the Smithsonian. It's a numismatic nightmare!
Steve Torrente@Pwnallthethings I'm sure Coinstar is just salivating at the idea that someone might turn that thing in at one of their machines.
@theLastTheorist They should create a novelty one for the Fed
@krisnelson@Pwnallthethings I’m a belt & suspenders fan personally or rather a coin & 14th fan. Throw that spaghetti at the wall! See what sticks! Big down the courts in trying to figure out what’s even happening!
kkeller@Pwnallthethings wasn't there a Simpsons episode about a trillion dollar bill?
Michael Glotzer@Pwnallthethings I like the Consol bond approach https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05/biden-can-win-the-debt-ceiling-fight-with-consol-bonds.html seems very straightforward and based on existing law.
Michael Gemar
foldl
David NetoAs I understand it the executive must exhaust all legal options before appealing to a constitutional principle. The coin is straightforward and perfectly legal.
Matt Blaze@Pwnallthethings It would be safer if sec 4 of the 14th Amendment said:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.
Steve Bellovin@mattblaze @Pwnallthethings Too verbose—the GOP automatically ignores any text about well-regulated militias.
@SteveBellovin @Pwnallthethings No, "Well-regulated militia" is GOP-constitution-speak for "sudo".
sxpert@mattblaze @Pwnallthethings @SteveBellovin
They just skip over “well regulated” as they don’t understand those words
They just skip over “well regulated” as they don’t understand those words
Karl Auerbach@mattblaze @Pwnallthethings It is useful and instructive to note that the US Constitution mentions "militia" in sections other than the 2nd amendment.
In Article I congress is given powers "for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States"
In Article II the President "shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several State"
These evince an overall, interlocking structure, one that makes sense in the formative period of the Constitution, of what a "well regulated militia" is.
And Scalia threw that out based on a history that neither exists nor is appropriate for that portion - the larger portion - that came from Spain, Mexico, France, Russia, Dole Pineapple, etc.
John Lusk
lawnerdbarak@Pwnallthethings the fourteenth amendment is the mechanism by which a private citizen who owns t bills can sue the treasury secretary in DDC for an injunctive order to mint the coin. Minting the coin is the way to obey the fourteenth amendment.
AMS@Pwnallthethings For one: I want that heist movie.
Robert Kern@Pwnallthethings Joseph Fishkin is on the case, though favoring consols/premium bonds a little over the platinum coin.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/biden-must-consider-all-the-laws-not-just-the-debt-ceiling-as-x-date-approaches
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/biden-must-consider-all-the-laws-not-just-the-debt-ceiling-as-x-date-approaches
Biden Must Consider All The Laws—Not Just The Debt-Ceiling—As ‘X Date’ Approaches
This article is part of TPM Cafe, TPM’s home for opinion and news analysis. Versions of this article appeared at the Balkinization blog and at the Roosevelt Institute blog. As we approach the so…
Serene@Pwnallthethings I would read it. I love the debt ceiling debate minutiae and I'm a big big coin fan.
Vance Maverick@Pwnallthethings I want to read it, if only to balance the other incompatible advice I've been reading.
Paul Church@Pwnallthethings I'm a big fan of the coin because there's no obvious person who would have standing to sue, the bond market does not get an opinion on how it should be priced, the only entity that has to accept it is the Fed after which point money is fungible so no individual downstream transaction can ever be called into question, and it would provide a powerful stimulus package to the heist movie industry.
Adam Shostack 
@Pwnallthethings Several@law prof blogs have writeups of the tradeoffs. Prawfs or balkinization maybe?
Nekodojo@Pwnallthethings
Why not mint the whole collection of coins with Senators and House reps on them? Value of each could be the amount of debt they voted to approve during the former guys tenure
Why not mint the whole collection of coins with Senators and House reps on them? Value of each could be the amount of debt they voted to approve during the former guys tenure
Mallory's Musings & Mischief@Pwnallthethings MINT THE COIN! MINT THE COIN!
BearG@Pwnallthethings Re the deficit limit: a) What would happen if the administration took one of the paths & the debit limit disappeared? b) who is the cop that would stop the administration from borrowing?
Karl Habermas@Pwnallthethings I would be interested.
Matt Ringel@Pwnallthethings Unlike all the other bits of 31 USC 5112 authorizing coinage, subsection k ( the platinum coin one) doesn’t specify the shape, size, incscription, or anything else about the coin.
So, clearly, it should be forged in the shape of an operational firearm. That should clear things up.
Ken '|<3ns41' 🌻 🫰🏻@Pwnallthethings Lawrence Tribe pointed out that when the executive branch is given conflicting laws it is their responsibility to make the best determination of how to enforce them. If there's a law saying to pay and a law saying not to pay, they can just pay because it's one of the choices. (It's virtually guaranteed that this interpretation would go to the SCOTUS and who knows what they'll rule, though.)
Bobbyholiday@Pwnallthethings put a dark brandon meme on the front of the coin and Biden running over McCarthy with his corvette on the other
cui bono, baby.@Pwnallthethings At least 1.
Lairek@Pwnallthethings hey, I´d read that!
MaryPotWith the economic situation for far too many in the USA as is, printing more money will just worsen the situation.
@Pwnallthethings You wrote it 😊
And it's good.
“Notice that this is an inversion of the traditional “schoolbook” model of US governance... this forces a negotiation that is advantageous to the minority party: They get to hold the country hostage.”
!!
And it's good.
“Notice that this is an inversion of the traditional “schoolbook” model of US governance... this forces a negotiation that is advantageous to the minority party: They get to hold the country hostage.”
!!
rateexportpilot@Pwnallthethings they should pitch putting Trump's face on it - guarantee you get a plurality of republican support.
James@Pwnallthethings I liked it