Simon Willison

If you built a macOS desktop app that makes notification sounds even when the machine is in "Do Not Disturb" focus mode you should feel very bad about what you have done

(My laptop made two mysterious ping noises during the online talk I gave this morning)

May 2, 2023 at 4:26pmWeb
Show threadSimon WillisonMay 3, 2023
Thinking about this further: there is genuinely not a scenario in the world where I want my computer to make a noise to accompany a notification. That's what my phone is for.
Show threadSimon WillisonMay 3, 2023
And I don't want my phone to make noises either - I have an Apple Watch, having it vibrate is about all the notification interruption I can handle
Show threadSam WillisMay 3, 2023
@simon I've turned off almost all notifications everywhere, only have them for iMessage+WhatsApp (except I've had to mute some school parent groups 😩) and email from a very select small group of family and colleagues.
It makes life so much better.
Show threadStan SeibertMay 3, 2023
@simon The mute switch on my iPhone has been enabled so long that I forget it is there.
Show threadMichael WymanMay 3, 2023
@simon the only reason my phone should make a noise is for alarms I’ve set. Specifically my morning wake-up alarm.
Show threadMichael RoweMay 3, 2023
@simon me too…
Show threadAmar BalikaiMay 4, 2023
@simon 💯 My Mac is always on do not disturb 🙌.
Show threadPratik PatelMay 4, 2023
@simon I set up do not disturb to be turned on all the time on my Windows machine and yet I get sounds from notifications from one of the aps I use. No excuse for that behavior.
Show threadDouglas KingMay 4, 2023
@simon
Dear God in heaven the terminal bell being on by default freaks me out whenever I set up a new machine.
Show threadBruce ElrickMay 4, 2023

@douglascodes @simon
I like shell tab-completion so endure bad terminal bells, but don't feel so put out by them (mind you, when it disturbs office-mates, I do feel put out).

But just recently switched from Gnome Terminal to kitty to be able to have ligatures from Nerd Fonts typefaces actually work, and was pleasantly surprised by its terminal bell.

Show threadHugo 雨果May 4, 2023
@simon I wish applications (and websites) had to prompt for permission to use the speakers in the same way that they prompt to use a camera.
Show threadDavid MichaelsMay 2, 2023
@simon this is my least favorite thing about Discord
Show threadSimon WillisonMay 2, 2023
@vwampage oh that may well have been it!
Show threadZacMay 2, 2023
@vwampage @simon I had this same issue with Discord. I thought I had notifications and sound disabled until it started beeping at me. It has too many settings for channel notifications
Show threadDavid MichaelsMay 2, 2023
@lolzac @simon If respecting systemwide do not disturb is a setting that isn't on be default Discord has chosen the wrong default.
Show threadZacMay 2, 2023
@vwampage @simon Discord is a series of usability problems masquerading as a chat system.
Show threadAaron MeurerMay 2, 2023
@lolzac @vwampage @simon You may want to check out ripcord
Show threadxanth00May 3, 2023
@lolzac @vwampage @simon moreover even if you have dnd status in discord, the notifications still get through
Show threadFeralRobotsMay 2, 2023
@simon on a related note, my phone sounds a fairly loud gong when it goes into "sleep mode."
Show threadIan McKellarMay 2, 2023
@simon never trust an app that isn't a web app.
Show threadScott PerryMay 2, 2023
@ian @simon it was probably a web app that made the DND-ignorant noise 😕
Show threadIan McKellarMay 2, 2023
@numist @simon that's a browser bug.
Show threadScott PerryMay 2, 2023
@ian @simon hmm, is Electron a browser? 
Show threadScott PerryMay 2, 2023
@ian @simon more seriously, is there even a web API for differentiating notification sounds that should be silenced by DND vs, say, audio tracks from videos that you want to hear regardless?
Show threadIan McKellarMay 2, 2023

@numist @simon
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Notifications_API

But presumably DND should mute sound from all background tabs?

Notifications API - Web APIs | MDN

The Notifications API allows web pages to control the display of system notifications to the end user. These are outside the top-level browsing context viewport, so therefore can be displayed even when the user has switched tabs or moved to a different app. The API is designed to be compatible with existing notification systems, across different platforms.

MDN Web Docs
Show threadScott PerryMay 2, 2023
@ian @simon I feel like that behaviour would violate least surprise for web-hosted video/music/podcasts
Show threadIan McKellarMay 2, 2023
@numist @simon
Or maybe don't let a background tab start playing when you're in DND?
Show threadGlyphMay 2, 2023
@ian @numist @simon It does not. If you think about it for a sec it would not make sense to do so, otherwise you couldn't put a music player into a browser that you listen to when you when you are working and don't want to be bothered by notifications.
Show threadIan McKellarMay 2, 2023
@numist @simon If it's Electron it's not a web app. It's a desktop app that uses HTML. A Swift app that calls https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/nsattributedstring/1525953-init isn't a web app either.
init(html:documentAttributes:) | Apple Developer Documentation

Creates an attributed string from the HTML in the specified data object.

Apple Developer Documentation
Show threadZacMay 2, 2023
@ian @numist @simon It runs in a self-contained web browser so that seems like a web app to me
Show threadRobert Weißgraeber🇪🇺May 2, 2023
@simon i think that’s „allow time sensitive notifications“ that do that.
Show threadlorddimwit is now @[email protected]May 2, 2023
@simon
Show threadZacMay 2, 2023
@simon @benc “And this is the machine that goes BING!”
Show threadZacMay 2, 2023
@simon @benc I am actually thinking that this is how I am going to describe all electron apps from now on.
Show threadGlyphMay 2, 2023
@simon As I get ready to start using discord more (it seems to be where the real-time action is these days) after hearing @mcc complaining about this problem extensively I am seriously considering buying https://www.rogueamoeba.com/soundsource/ so I can permanently mute it before I start having this experience every day. $40 seems like a lot for a mute button though. perhaps there should be a hashtag to raise awareness, #WhyIsDiscordBeeping
SoundSource - A Superior Sound Control

Access your Mac's audio devices, control per-app audio, and much more, all from the menu bar.

Show threadmccMay 2, 2023

@glyph @simon If all you want is to have it not beep at all, that is the easy case. There is a "make no sounds" preference in Discord. In a browser you can also mute the tab.

My problem is I want it to beep *sometimes*, such as when my wife IMs me. Simon's problem is more that the Discord app's beeping (from what I have heard) inexplicably ignores the OS-level "Do not disturb" preference.

Show threadGlyphMay 2, 2023
@mcc @simon there are people all over the forums complaining that this preference does not persist across login sessions but perhaps that bug has been fixed?
Show threadmccMay 2, 2023
@glyph @simon Yuck
Show threadGlyphMay 2, 2023
@mcc @simon it's interesting that there can be so many _different_ problems with a program beeping
Show threadCassandra is only carbon nowMay 2, 2023
@glyph @mcc @simon This. Discord's notifications are frustrating in a plethora of ways. I'd personally even be fine with it beeping if those beeps were at all actionable. There is no UI element that conclusively answers "why did Discord just make noise at me," but instead there's inbox, there's @-mentions, there's DMs, there's friend requests, and you often had to check each one individually and hope you can figure it out.
Show threadConor O'NeillMay 2, 2023

@simon
Er, surely it is up to the OS to _enforce_ 'Do not disturb' mode, not up to every app to voluntarily abide by this?

Otherwise, perhaps it should be renamed to be 'Please ask [nicely] before disturbing anyone' mode?
Self evidently, you've seen how successful that is.

Show threadSörenMay 4, 2023

@tpuddle @simon enforce it how? Do Not Disturb doesn’t mean Mute. I could be in DND because I’m on a video call, and I definitely want to get audio from that.

What DND can do is mute standard alert sounds, and I believe it does. But then Discord would have to register its audio as an alert sound.

Show threadChristina WarrenMay 3, 2023
@simon my least favorite thing is that I can’t separate modes on devices. I might want mh phone silent but my laptop can make noise. Or vice versa. But I need apps to respect that setting
Show threadAlan May 3, 2023
There is an option, IIRC, that allows you to disable "Share Across Devices" in Settings > Focus. But I agree about the need to respect focus.
Show threadAndromeda YeltonMay 3, 2023
@simon Gahhh! Literally the first thing I do with a new device is turn off all the notifications that make noise (and most of the ones that don't)
Show threadJimBobBennettMay 3, 2023
@simon never use Microsoft Teams then, it has its own notification mechanism that ignores the do not disturb settings 🙄
Show threadHugo 雨果May 4, 2023
@simon This is exactly why my desktop PC doesn't have speakers and I connect headphones only when needed.
Show threadBen RamseyMay 4, 2023
@simon @chucker I always turn off audio notifications. However, I had thought that macOS would not allow this, as long as the app is tying into their notifications and permissions system. I guess if the app has decided to work around that system, then they’ve done something really bad, and I would uninstall it.