PatriciaApr 19, 2023
Ken White
Serious Trouble episode (with a re-recorded section after settlement) about Dominion dropping today. We didn’t talk about:
* No trial result would have had the judge ordering Fox to apologize on air
*No trial result would have resulted in Fox being punished for damage to democracy
*. No trial result could have ”established facts” as true or false for all purposes in America
If your expectations for the legal system are not reality-based you’re going to be consistently disappointed.
Apr 19, 2023 at 3:01pmWeb
Show threadRandom ParticipationApr 19, 2023
@Popehat I think the Lindell and Guliani cases will be more entertaining. First, neither can afford to settle in any meaningful way. Two, both are mentally unstable so they cannot accept fault and will take their cases all the way to the end.
Show threadJohn O’DonnellApr 19, 2023
@NailClippings @Popehat
But which one will go totally dolaaly in court, and start singing about how the Wardrobe Monster will get the opposing lawyers?
Show threadDoug WarrenApr 19, 2023
@Popehat
There should just be a special extra court system where people have to say they're dumb and evil on national television.
Show threadDoug WarrenApr 19, 2023
@Popehat
No, knock it off, monkey paw, I heard it when I said it.
Show threadJonathanApr 19, 2023
@DougWar40k @Popehat
People say they’re dumb and evil on tv all the time. MTG has made a career out of it.
Show threadhammancheezApr 19, 2023
@Popehat the heart wants what it wants
Show threadRandom Damage 🌻Apr 19, 2023
@Popehat the most realistic expectation is that revalations actually coming out in court would have made more news in more places, causing more brand damage for Fox than the settlement will
Show threadPaulAlanLevyApr 19, 2023
@RandomDamage @Popehat Perhaps, but Dominion probably decided it did not want to spend its money on lawyer fees to further that objective
Show threadRandom Damage 🌻Apr 19, 2023

@paulalanlevy @Popehat true, and it's not fair of people to expect them to.

Especially when Fox was willing to pay such a handsome sum to avoid the prospect.

Show threadKen WhiteApr 19, 2023
@RandomDamage Do you believe that the people who are devoted to Fox will become less devoted to Fox based on a jury verdict from a system that Fox relentlessly tells them is corrupt and woke?
Show threadRandom Damage 🌻Apr 19, 2023

@Popehat not at all.

I just think that the amount of news coverage from an actual trial would be more likely to cut through the noise so that people who aren't "Fox True Believers" would peel off from supporting them.

There's always going to be 10% of people that you can't reach with any message no matter how true or brilliantly crafted, but for the rest there's media carpet bombing

Show threadKen WhiteApr 19, 2023
@RandomDamage I’m skeptical, as I am about Trump supporters. At this point I think it’s all priced in.
Show threadRandom Damage 🌻Apr 19, 2023

@Popehat consider the case of TVs on military bases playing Fox 24/7.

With this, *some* base commanders will have "official" screens turned elsewhere, after months of devastating public testimony, few would not.

It's a matter of getting people invested that don't care yet.

Which is exactly how beating Trump works, too

Show threadWatching Elon burn TwitterApr 19, 2023
@RandomDamage @Popehat The argument that it could convince someone to change the channel on a common area TV is a strong one, but I think you could count the people who could be convinced by (a civil verdict) but not by (a $787B settlement AND a sumnary judgement where the judge found they lied) could be counted on one hand.
Show threadSteffen ChristensenApr 19, 2023
@Popehat @RandomDamage Just as we have the median justice on the Supreme Court, so too do we have the median voter. They may move their position a little, even if the absolute majority do not.
Show threadGoldenrevApr 19, 2023

@Popehat
Both the good news and the bad news…

Thanks for your toots 🙏

Show threadKeithVD Apr 19, 2023
@Popehat Are there any consequences for the hiding from discovery? (I'm fine if the answer is "listen to the episode")
Show threadTrojan DuckApr 19, 2023
@Popehat And now you know why I'm a recluse
Show threadChuck DarwinApr 19, 2023

@Popehat

Dominion was responsible for saving Dominion
And we the people are responsible for saving democracy

Show threadEverydaymanApr 19, 2023
@cdarwin @Popehat I don't necessarily disagree that we are responsible for saving democracy. But the actual people responsible for doing the saving are the people we elect to represent us. To me that is the major issue.
Show threadLizardApr 19, 2023
@DaveHopper @cdarwin @Popehat "The people have failed the government. We must elect a new people." (Brecht)
Show threadCanadian CroneApr 19, 2023
@cdarwin @Popehat Well-said
Show threadJim LillicotchApr 19, 2023
@cdarwin @Popehat
Dominion did leave a very nice easy-to-follow road map for others to follow
Show threadEarthOneApr 19, 2023
@cdarwin @Popehat Oooh, that's not gonna work. We can't even save school children.
Show threadChuck DarwinApr 19, 2023
@EarthOne @Popehat #DontStopTrying
Show threadIsaac RabinovitchApr 19, 2023

@Popehat It's true, nothing will "establish facts" to the MAGA crowd. But it would have been useful to make their moral obtuseness a bigger part of the national flame war.

I say this acknowledging that no sane plaintiff would walk away from this kind of settlement.

Show threadIt's Pronounced DEETSApr 19, 2023
@Popehat
Show threadJennifer Kayla | Theogrin 🦊Apr 19, 2023

@Popehat

The most I could have earnestly hoped for were sanctions which would have resulted in FOX having to change its tune a little -- for the sake of investors, if naught else. And $750m is no small sum, so there might be a little of that, but I simply expect the net result will be 'cover your ass a little better, next time.'

Show threadMoon Baron Apr 19, 2023
@Popehat maybe more of an accounting question, but do these settlements end up as a line item on Dominion / Fox quarterlies? Will we ever have a sense of how much it was ballpark?
Show threadJake Apr 19, 2023

@Popehat
Yeah, people don't seem to understand that the legal system is designed to protect the wealthy and powerful not punish them or hold them accountable.

The best thing the average person can hope for is to never have a reason to be involved in the legal system.

Lots of hand wringing but realistically nothing was going to change how Fox did business and it would be insane to watch a corporation like Dominion forgo a huge pay day. Ideally they'd take care of their employees that received death threats, but unless you like more disappointment it's probably best not to follow where that money is going to wind up.

Show threadPerpetually ExhaustedApr 19, 2023

@Popehat Few things are more frustrating than watching the usual Twitter suspects rouse the masses into thinking a court case is more than what it is.

For months, these people convinced the Very Online Left that this case was about democracy, that Dominion was going to act for the good of The People, and that Fox News was finally going to get its comeuppance.

Same people who promised that Robert Mueller would save us all and that Donald Trump would be doing a perp walk in Manhattan. 🙄

Show threadTodd KnarrApr 19, 2023
@Popehat I think the important thing about going to trial and winning would've been making it clear that Dominion had _won_. The settlement, by making the amount public, does the same thing: no way is that amount Fox paying to make a nuisance suit go away, the only reason to pay that much to settle is if they knew they'd lost and the only question was how much more than that the jury would end up awarding.
Show threadlessbarbApr 19, 2023
@Popehat talk about Ron vs Disney, and what part of his proposed legislative maneuvers are bluster, and what he might actually do (that unlikely to get tossed by a court).
Show threadWe Should Bury ThisApr 19, 2023
@Popehat but much in the same way as when I play the lottery or am waiting for my cholesterol test results, I was able to briefly dip my toes into the warm ocean of fantasy where all things work out until the wave of reality crashed, and really, isn't making stuff up in your head half the fun of the law?
Show threadktApr 19, 2023
@Popehat so stop your bitching, roll over and let the plutocrats kill your grandma….
Show threadKen WhiteApr 19, 2023
@kthornton No. “We should have a system that can deliver more” is a rational criticism. “Dominion should not have settled, instead it should have insisted on [things the current law can’t deliver]” is silly and irrational.
Show threadktApr 19, 2023
@Popehat how did you read that comment as my not saying the same thing? we can have no faith in piecemeal “civil” (which translates to friendly and respectful,) corporate justice, and must demand criminal, uncivil and unfriendly justice in this case.
Show threadKen WhiteApr 19, 2023
@kthornton None of which is Dominion’s fault or Dominion’s job. My focus is on people acting disappointed at Dominion’s settlement.
Show threadktApr 19, 2023
@Popehat we can and should be allowed to be disappointed. If corporations are “people,” we deserve better from them than this. If corporations don’t want to be held to “people standards” then, they should call the (Gop) legislators that made them people and work to change those laws. oh, wait. These corporations want it both ways. in that case, we get to express our disappointment, loudly and over and over. just my opinion, widely shared. #dominion
Show threadKen WhiteApr 19, 2023
@kthornton So what did you want Dominion to do, and why?
Show threadktApr 19, 2023
@Popehat hold out for Fox to be forced to say on air that they lied, especially because the #Dominion corporation only makes money because of Democracy (voting machines,) and Fox’s lie harmed democracy.
Show threadKen WhiteApr 19, 2023
@kthornton Fox can’t be compelled to do that. So you’re saying Dominion should have held out for something that the law doesn’t offer them and that in fact is prohibited by the constitution. Can you understand why that annoys me?
Show threadFuck Elon Apr 19, 2023

@Popehat @kthornton

I feel for you. I am no lawyer and it annoys me to no end. And It happens in a lot of other instances "Democrats caved" or "democrats are not doing what I want" but they go ahead and vote for third parties ensuring democrats will not have a chance to do what they want.

Show threadBadWoofApr 19, 2023

@FuckElon @Popehat @[email protected]

#ForeverThis

Show threadFuck Elon Apr 19, 2023
@kthornton @Popehat
They could not do that. Nothing but holding a gun to Murdoch's head could have accomplished that. Jesus.
Show threadktApr 19, 2023
@FuckElon @Popehat had they gone to trial, they most certainly could have had that included in their settlement, but they took the money and ran. no self respecting democracy should use their machines again.
Show threadFuck Elon Apr 19, 2023

@kthornton @Popehat

Did you just hear the big shot lawyer say that they could not?

I am starting to think you have ulterior motives here.

Show threadKen WhiteApr 19, 2023
@kthornton @FuckElon This makes no sense.
Show threadKeepYourWitsApr 19, 2023
@kthornton @FuckElon @Popehat And Dominion could have lost at trial, at tremendous cost to their bottom line….
Show threadktApr 19, 2023
@mwk2244 @FuckElon @Popehat but they didn’t even risk it, instead, they got a mean ass side hustle from both sidings democracy. n
Show threadKeepYourWitsApr 19, 2023
@kthornton @FuckElon @Popehat You made my point—because they were risk averse, an eminently defensible corporate position, for their financial well-being and their shareholders.
Show threadktApr 19, 2023
@mwk2244 @FuckElon @Popehat I would say at this point it is in #dominion ‘s best interest that Fox, et al CONTINUES to lie about Dominion voting machines because then they can keep earning from BOTH sides of Democracy, those FOR it, and via #settlement from what ends up as a nuisance fees from the Folks like #fox who are anti democratic. Way to WIN, #dominion. Fiddle while we burn.
Show threadKeepYourWitsApr 20, 2023
@kthornton @FuckElon @Popehat may be right, but clearly you never tried a civil case before a jury.
Show threadktApr 20, 2023
@mwk2244 @FuckElon @Popehat nobody does. Lol. 😂
Show threadktApr 19, 2023
@mwk2244 @FuckElon @Popehat and they wouldn’t have lost, obs. had they waited to settle on the last day, they still would have won. greed. n
Show threadKeepYourWitsApr 20, 2023
@kthornton @FuckElon @Popehat no.
Show threadMattApr 19, 2023
@kthornton lol, no. Goodbye
Show threadPyperkubApr 19, 2023
@Popehat it's hard to say. Given the Alex Jones jury awards, it does appear as though Dominion may have left a LOT of money on the table.
Show threadUnlettered PeasantApr 19, 2023

@pyperkub @Popehat
But will Jones victims collect even a fraction of the jury awards? There is still a long way to go in that case for victims to see any money.

A settlement for Dominion means they get the money more or less immediately.