someone complimented my “save icon” earrings yesterday
This example of a digital relict of a largely obsolete technology (seeing a floppy disk and thinking "save icon") made me remember seeing a talk from Amelia Acker a number of years ago about work on youth data literacy. Something that stuck out at me was the finding that young people who grow up using phones and tablets rather than computers might have no understanding of how a file system works. Some of those findings discussed here: https://www.yalsa.ala.org/jrlya/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Bowler-Acker-Chi_PerspectivesOnYouthDataLiteracy_FINAL.pdf
@cfiesler
Which also reminds me of when I brought an iPod Classic to a youth group I helped run. None of the kids had any idea how to use the Click Wheel
@edross @cfiesler one of my friends was talking just last week about kids not believing her that a thing called an iPod existed. And all it did was play music.
I still have my Classic. It has some great songs on there. I just... dunno where the charging cord is.
@cfiesler I saw a joke where the kid saw a 3.5 floppy and said “look it’s a 3D printout of the save icon!”

@cfiesler I might be misremembering but I seem to recall years ago hearing Microsoft people proudly talking about how they wanted to abolish file systems altogether, replace NTFS with a big database so that we would simply do a search for a file, or reference it directly instead of navigating folder trees.

It never happened, but we got a simulation of it on the UI level instead.

Edit: Reading the replies, it was so very very much more than I remembered!

WinFS - Wikipedia

Xerz! :blobcathearttrans: (@[email protected])

so, if you’re wondering what that would have looked like, here’s an ad and an official Flash demo that guided you through the dreamhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhWCH8ebShY https://www.youtube.co...

@uastronomer @cfiesler
I disagree my friend...
It's called SharePoint and it is complete and utter shit.
@cfiesler i downloaded it but can't find it
@cfiesler ooooh -- related, i think we're the last generation that instinctively presses cmd-S (or ctrl-S) or whatever to save periodically due to old memories of data loss. i was using some app (i forgot what) which binds that to some other functionality completely, and it threw me off.
@pg WAIT YOU'RE SAYING I DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT?
@cfiesler @pg I think all word processors are key loggers
@cfiesler @pg You probably should. I stopped doing that and recently gave detailed feedback to student master thesis draft. Battery ran out and (contrary to a Mac), the windows computer just shut off completely. Last save was 30 minutes prior 😭
@pg @cfiesler So much this. I can point to the exact "old memory of data loss" which did it for me: writing a Game of Life simulator in BASIC for a whole day, and then turning the machine off and going to bed. Next day was a rough awakening for sure. 😑
@floe @cfiesler ha probably nothing in that sentence makes sense to students now :) who turns a machine off anymore?!?
@pg @cfiesler We old Emacs folks know that C-s (aka Ctrl+s) is for search and that Emacs autosaves into an extra file for recovery. Only these modern GUI stuff forgot to do this ;-)

@cfiesler I remember hearing about that. I've spent many hours trying to find photos on my phone through the filesystem browser and it always infuriated me how hard it was to find anything.

This is, of course, by design. If you make it easy to find files in the native filesystem then people won't use your app to find them.

And we can't have that, now, can we? 😤

@zalasur @cfiesler I hate how you have to use an app to FIND THINGS - it's GOT to be possible to navigate your own device's internal storage natively! And not have to download an app with ADS in order to do that!

*things that make me really angry*

@enchantedsleeper @cfiesler You can borrow my soapbox 😉😋

@zalasur Thank you! *stands on soapbox*

"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

@cfiesler That makes sense. The ubiquity of search means never having to drill down in folders to find what you're looking for. I can't use gmail for this reason. All my emails go into folders, just like my files have done for the last three decades. The universal inbox where everything lives is as unpalatable to me as saving everything to a root directory.
@cfiesler there's an Eternal September reference to be made here for someone cleverer than I am.

@cfiesler As computers get more phone-like, they keep hiding the file system. They can take my file system (and my command prompt) from my cold, dead fingers.

And yes, I realize I am basically a cranky old geezer rambling on about the gold standard, and in a generation or so, we file system weirdos will be treated as such, and we will deserve it.

@cfiesler it gets even worse when you have the OneDrive “file system” vs the network (samba) file system vs local file system. And no, it is not painless to move between them. Honestly I hate the teams/sharepoint mess when you have to manage a few 1000 files across a project. Very steep learning cliff if you already don’t understand it.

@cfiesler Totally matches up with my experience teaching high school students. Lots of primary schools here use tablets almost exclusively - by the time they hit high school lots of kids have no idea about mice, modifier keys, the file system etc.

It’s kinda funny that some of this manifests as kids toggling caps lock on physical keyboards for single capitals, the way they would on a tablet on screen keyboard.

@cfiesler my experience has been that most laypeople have no idea how a filesystem works. computers are a magic internet box and when it gets full, they buy a new one.
@cfiesler Most people who use desktop OSes with files have no idea how filesystems work. They get as far as knowing about the hierarchy of named folders with files in them. Maybe they learn about permissions. Very few learn about inodes, journals, extents, alternate data streams, hard links, subvolumes, etc. Few know that "Τĥιs ñåmè įß ą váĺîδ/ POSIX
paτĥ" is a valid POSIX path consisting of a directory and a file name.
@nkrishnaswami @cfiesler ISTM characters with the “millennial” trait have a permanent disadvantage on saving throws against feeling old. Perhaps because our modems’ screams cursed us.
@cfiesler I bet that floppied your day!
@cfiesler It's funny that the save icon is still a li'l disk when no one has used those for 20 years now.
@cfiesler I once met someone who had thousands of 3d printed save icons stored in boxes in his basement. Each one was labelled. What a strange guy

@cfiesler we're all doomed.

I do love the bling, though.

@cfiesler

drat, my piercing has grown over
@cfiesler What would a modern save icon look like? I can only think of continuing to use a floppy disc, or maybe an optical disc or SD card.
@cfiesler OMG those are adorable!
@cfiesler I am also head over heels for those glasses!
@cfiesler — I wear this shirt in public and it gets similar reactions. https://shirt.woot.com/offers/1971-floppy-diskette
1971-Floppy Diskette - $19.00 - Free shipping

1st place in Derby #239: The Year You Were Born: Redux!, with 946 votes!

Shirt.Woot
@cfiesler Well, they're not technically wrong. :D
@cfiesler Nice earrings, but also liking the game shelves!
@cfiesler im both beside myself laughing and also weeping in people not knowing what diskettes are
@cfiesler came here to say, “that’s not what I would have called them. Interesting” and then realized thats.the.joke.gif
@cfiesler very nice but they look a bit floppy.
@cfiesler I still feel uncomfortable not having a save icon drive in my computers.
@cfiesler proving me old again….
@cfiesler Don’t blame them, they are pretty fly.
@cfiesler That’s what they are now: no one has used floppy disks for at least 25 years, and even then they were archaic.😃
@JMaverickJacks1 haha not that long, I was definitely still using them in college which was more like 20
@cfiesler You had a really old computer in college, or at least one that wasn’t cutting-edge.😃
@cfiesler But maybe my view is biased because I was a technology journalist back then, and was used to being a little avant-garde — on the “bleeding edge” of tech.🤔