Bluebird
Ricki Yasha TarrI keep seeing articles about Mastodon slumps, and journalists going back to Twitter. Is it fair to say, that maybe Mastodon isn't for journalists, or brands, or even people who want large accounts? Maybe Mastodon is true social media, for people who want to interact and discuss, not be influenced, sold to, or manipulated with cult style tactics and followings. There will always be groups who dislike the idea of the people controlling their own inputs, people who don't like the idea of accessible Administration, and people who don't like the idea that if we don't like a space that we can just move to another one, or even create our own. Individualism is scary to the kind of people who thrive on complacency, and not challenging the status quo.
ask330 🪨🦣@RickiTarr I am here for good. Twitter is shit.
@ask330 What I liked about Twitter was the connections I made, it seems easier here.
@RickiTarr Agree! No "like" or "retweet" farming happening. It is just like an old-fashioned bbs - which i like!
Tom Delargy@RickiTarr @ask330 Easier for what? What happened to my 18,000 connections? They're not here. I can RT posts I agree with that over 1,000 others agree with. I can't find such amplification of my voice here. If you don't want journalists or politicians here you're surrendering the broadcast equivalent of universal suffrage to #ElonMusk, who'll pull the plug to stop us using it at key moments when needed most by democratic and human rights activists. Politics isn't a spectator sport.
@TomDelargy @ask330 It's not that I don't want journalists and politicians here, what I don't want is this becoming Twitter. Getting your news off social media sites might not be the best idea. Journalists throwing fits about Mastodon not falling all over themselves to change for them is a big issue. If they want to be here then put in the work, like the rest of us did, earn your place.
@RickiTarr @ask330 You posted this before reading my last response? Please understand I'm NOT keen to get journalists here to read their words of wisdom. Before coming here, I'd blocked most journalists on the other place. But I don't want them to isolate themselves from their critics, giving them an excuse to pretend no one disagrees with them. Mastodon MUST aspire to become the broadcast equivalent of universal suffrage. Hashtags can allow us to expose defenders of the reactionary status quo.
Martin Edwards@TomDelargy @RickiTarr @ask330 A few observations, Tom, if I may. You have almost half a million tweets to your name, which is quite unusual! Yet looking at your most recent, you're not getting much interaction — considering your high follower count. So I'm not sure that this amplification of your voice, of which you speak, is happening. And anyway, should it? Social media wasn't created for big accounts, nor indeed journalism. If anything, Twitter showed that some of the most toxic interaction occurs around big accounts and journalism. To suggest it was a place for truly useful discourse on politics is a very rose-tinted view. Mastodon is a throwback to better times.
@medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 I have almost half a million tweets to my name? You talking about the other place? I tweeted for a decade. That's not that much. If I'm not getting much interaction recently that may be because I've taken a decision to barely post anything there. That's been going on for month. I'm now focusing on Mastodon. My other account is mostly being mothballed. But if this site ignore journalists then I'll abandon this site and move back there until Musk kicks me off.
Steve@TomDelargy @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 How is it ignoring journalists? Because they're not getting some tools they think are necessary to inflate their egos and engagements? There's no obligation on #mastodon devs to do any of it. And here's the thing: Mastodon is #opensource. Anyone can fork it and create a platform that includes tools that journos want. Anyone can open an instance. Anyone can develop a platform that runs on Activitypub.
@lime_juice_cube @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 I have no idea what Activitypub is. As for everyone being able to create tools, I've got a postgraduate diploma in information technology. But my skills are years old and I have no idea how to do the things you suggest. Nor do I have the money to buy a server. Most of us don't. But if journalists employers can buy servers and introduce these tools, why aren't they here? Why are they sticking with birdsite, at least until they're kicked off?
@TomDelargy @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 I suggest that you read about Activitypub. It offers a lot of context as to why Mastodon is like it is. Twitter is a centralised service. The Fediverse is decentralised. This makes it vastly different to big social. Activitypub is a protocol, not a platform. That means anything running on it can communicate easily. Mastodon is just a single expression of this protocol, but the Fediverse is much larger than Mastodon. I don't suggest anyone can develop for it, but it is possible. It's open, unlike Twitter or FB. And you can pay for Mastodon hosting already if you want your own fully supported instance.
@lime_juice_cube @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 How can I pay? I have no money. Does that mean you don't care about my rights. I'll find out about the other parts of the fediverse eventually. But it's Mastodon I care about. Communication isn't easy; I've no idea why you think it is. Lots more work needs to be put into this. Server hopping causes big problems at this stage. The decentralized aspect isn't an impediment to using hashtags to make this today's broadcast equivalent of universal suffrage.
@lime_juice_cube @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 Like most people who disagree with me on getting journalists here, the root of our disagreement is our attitude to using the platform for human rights and democratic advocacy. The msm is owned by the establishment; so radical critics need to challenge them. We did that a lot in the pre #ElonMusk days. But that's drawing to a close. Mastodon needs to pick up the baton. Or do you like the political/economic/social status quo globally? I hope not.
@TomDelargy @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 I don't like it, but I also don't expect to bend things to my personal needs. I don't experience over-attachment to stuff. Mastodon is what it is. It may or may not replace Twitter. If you want to make it that tool, look at Activitypub, talk to others of like mind, get in touch with developers who have a vision, use the power of open source, investigate other options that may suit you better 😊
@lime_juice_cube @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 Mastodon is what it is. Great. You are a conservative. I'm not. You like the status quo. So we don't have anything to discuss. Cheerio.
@TomDelargy @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 I'm not conservative politically at all by the way. If anything, I often consider that the left is too conservative. I'm interested in many fields, including psychology, philosophy, and history. Study in such areas has led me to have an overarching view of a great many human behaviours. As Buddha says: the root of human suffering can be found in our desires for things and our attachment to them. These things we discuss are simply ideas and that's interesting to me. We each are far more than simple sketches of left and right. For what it's worth, I understand your frustration and your need to find a tool that helps to liberate people from the corrupt.
@TomDelargy @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 So, why don't journalists come here? Likely a number of reasons: they've spent a long time building engagement on Twitter and have inertia/fear of change because they don't want to lose all that engagement/followers and work; they fear a platform where algos don't make them mini-celebs; basic fear of change; attachment to Twitter's culture and way of doing things, making them less likely to seek an alternative and more likely to denigrate any alternative because it doesn't fit their ideas of who they are and what big social should be. In other words - ego, inertia, fear and over-attachment in many cases. Your basic human nature reasons really.
@lime_juice_cube @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 Your idea of human nature & mine are light years apart. Journalists won't come here if no one else is here and those who are are telling them we don't want them. They look at how many are posting stuff and how many are following others and it looks pitiful. We can and must change that. Why am I followed by so many who joined long before I did and haven't posted anything & aren't following anyone I can see and aren't being followed by anyone I can see?
@TomDelargy @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 I don't know your specific circumstances so I won't guess. But my feed is active and I find it easy to shape my experience here. I find the lack of intrusive algos liberating, but for many used to Twitter's silo, it could feel frustrating and empty. I understand that. I felt that way the first time I tried Mastodon a few years ago. This is my second time.
@TomDelargy @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330 Human nature is what it is. With science and decades of research in mind I don't see how it can be another way. I mean, we can believe whatever we want about human nature. We're free to do that. But being involved in an evidence-based area like psychology, there's a difference to me between fact and belief.
Peter Butler@TomDelargy @lime_juice_cube @medwds @RickiTarr @ask330
1. There are tons of journalists on Mastodon already. Tons.
There are more than 1,300 journalists on this list alone (including myself) and certainly orders of magnitude more in reality.
2. Starting fights with people about what “Mastodon” should or shouldn’t do is not likely to accomplish anything.
Usagi B aka rancor@TomDelargy @RickiTarr @ask330 "Mastodon MUST aspire to become the broadcast equivalent of universal suffrage."
I'm not sure how you're squaring this with your firmly-held belief that journalists have a need to be treated "not like everyone else"... To me it seems like your want to elevate the wants of one community over the wants of others, without any sort of specificity as to what that looks like, or even trying to understand the technical limitations and nuances so people can follow along with *you* ("What's ActivityPub? I refuse to engage with this concept...") is self-defeating.
moss@RickiTarr journalist here to second this! I'm not here to become famous, I'm here for the community and the freedom mastodon gives. Twitter was incredibly toxic. We don't want that here.
@mossavery I appreciate you weighing in. I would love to see real journalism, but feel burned by the kind of corporate journalism i saw a lot of on Twitter.
@TomDelargy @RickiTarr 1. Musk bought Twitter to destroy it. 2. You can have a voice on mastodon it just takes more work. 3. If you want amplification, get a bullhorn and hit a street corner s/
Richard@TomDelargy @RickiTarr @ask330 The more a person argues their decision to stay on Twitter is important to the freedom of the world and the protection of democracy, the less I can take them seriously. The choice is simple: do you want to continue to provide content to a website that is explicitly inviting nazis and extremists to provide content alongside you or not? I am choosing no.
I like interacting here. But that is totally separate from the question of whether to quit Twitter
Dallas LewisExpert and well reasoned opinion is essential and there's lots of that on Twitter as long as you filter out the dross. Not so much here.
Z O R A N G R B I C@dallas @RickiTarr I've found a couple here much easier and faster than I ever have on twitter. And I was able to interact with them.
Regrettably, people spend too much time on twitter playing the algorithms instead of communicating. Even if you filter out the crap, it still affects the information negatively.
In the end, both environnements are just a vehicle to get a message a cross. I prefer the one where a community is in charge, not somebody like Musk.
Neo-Athenian Empire@dallas @RickiTarr Filtering and discovery has become the challenge. The loss of the apps like #tweetbot has left my Twitter dominated by check marks and not the people with interesting stuff to say.
TransitBiker
T L Holaday@athenian_empire @dallas @RickiTarr
I await a browser extension that blocks birdsite accounts with a paid-for check mark.
Musk’s counter-move would be to make the check mark invisible to non-subscribers.
The counter-counter move would be a single subscribing `curating` account. This account would share a list of check mark-buying accounts as “recommended follows” in the form of JavaScript. The JavaScript has a wee “undo“ button, making it a Blocker.
Etc.
@dallas @RickiTarr this just looks like: "none of my favorite celebrities are being shoved in my face, when I login here"
...to me, and I don't think that problem is anywhere near universal, and easily fixed by finding other celebrities or pseudo-celebs who partake in your preferred hobbies, yet choose not to support the fascist birdsite
You are making a very broad assumption which I reject. There are people on Twitter whose opinion I value (eg Ronni Salt and other social analysts and numbers of macroeconomics academics) and others whose friendship I value. Sometimes they overlap. Most haven't at this stage chosen to migrate although some have established a holding presence here but don't post. So I'll continue to straddle until those people migrate or Twitter collapses. And I'll ignore the putdowns and attempts to verbal me which it seems Mastodon isn't immune from.
Norman Kebell@RickiTarr get fed up with those just really tooting twitter accounts.
Mike 🍁✔@RickiTarr I've accumulated over 500 'friends' on Facebook over the years, but am only followed by 35. I mainly just use it for following a few specific groups but I still do post occasionally. And have mentioned/promoted Mastodon but as far as I know none have migrated here.
@ravensview I tried to get people on Mastodon, some came over, but a lot didn't, I still have a Twitter account mostly to talk to those people.
Ramona Grigg@RickiTarr
Food for thought. The hardest part of Mastodon is finding a community. I find I don't spend much time here because I feel invisible. So I'm defeating the purpose, I know!
Food for thought. The hardest part of Mastodon is finding a community. I find I don't spend much time here because I feel invisible. So I'm defeating the purpose, I know!
@RamonaGrigg This sounds a little extreme, but I found my experience was better once I followed about 500 people, but I know that's a lot for some people. But just taking time to reply and being a part of the conversation is a lot, and I really appreciate it.
CautionWIP 🎃+🇨🇦+🏳️🌈= 
@RickiTarr @RamonaGrigg I agree. I get fewer likes and reposts on my stuff, but better actual engagement with people I follow and who follow me. Folks aren’t inundated with too much info and pressure to reply to everything and can take more mental space and time to read and reply with greater intent.
cobalt going beige today@RickiTarr @RamonaGrigg my experience as well! Now that I’m just about 500 following me and 800 I follow, it’s a whole new world here for me on Mastodon. Both home and Fediverse views are always poppin’. I find I’m having better conversations here that the bird place. No more “For You” suggestions and none needed. Finding my own folks by reading comments on posts of those I follow.
Tony thefathippyI noticed huge improvements once I understood I could pin #hashtags, and when I paid for Fedilab, which allows me to follow instances (other apps probably do, too. Fedilab was the first I knew of). For example, I follow beige.party (and others) as an instance and also some members as individuals. Following an instance opened a whole new world of interesting guff. Winning!
@thefathippy @RamonaGrigg Oh that's really cool! I've just followed tons of people, which I don't mind because I enjoy a chaotic timeline with lots to look at, but I get not everyone is like that.
Sushi Umbrella@thefathippy This is exactly the information I've been missing, thank you!
Velocirooster adminensis 
@RickiTarr @RamonaGrigg @thefathippy That's really cool, I had no idea you could follow an entire instance. Also, "interesting guff" might be my new favorite phrase.
___Me too. I feel that there's a huge difference between an interaction, and a conversation.
Mastodon seems full of interactions - posts and cute cat pics get likes, "I achieved <blah> today" generates approvals, but conversations, nope.
I wonder if there's a way to track the average number of back-and-forth responses on Mastodon? In my experience it's about 1 - post something, get a star (if you're lucky)
To me, a conversation is where the participants contribute *multiple* inputs over time in a continuous thread, and I just don't see that on Mastodon 😢
Stop That@RamonaGrigg @RickiTarr That’s it exactly. It’s harder on Mastodon to find community, and I’ve think a lot of folks leave before they hit that tipping point where Mastodon clicks, because it’s really rough over here at the beginning.
Darwin Woodka@RickiTarr idk, I like being sold to. What I can't stand is being advertised at. Being sold to implies someone understands what you need and doesn't just want you to buy the crap they're peddling.
@darwinwoodka Yes, that is a good distinction, I don't mind individual artists and small business promoting themselves.
Chris@RickiTarr I think you're hitting on some great points. For most journalists I think it really comes down to reach & promotion. They aren't on social to be social, they are on it to promote and get clicks. A social network that emphasizes conversation and requires (a little more) effort to distribute content isn't a good fit for their goals.
@chrisboulanger And honestly if journalists want to have an instance specifically for that then that's exactly what they should do, but trying to come into existing instances and demanding Mastodon change to suit them, is a fool's errand. Also there are a large number of websites specifically for journalists.
@RickiTarr agree completely. For example I think the entire point of the site Post.news is to give them a replacement distribution channel. I'm fine with fewer journalist being on here if all they want to do is post links and collect followers.
FrankFrankFrank@RickiTarr mastodon is just much nicer than Twitter – I’d actually quit twitter before the Debacle. That said, there’s no replacement if I’m trying to build a following for my art production
@frankfrankfrank Yes, I agree, that being said I don't mind seeing people post to try and sell art and services, we should support artists and small businesses, but I know everyone doesn't agree with that. I wonder if anyone has built an instance specifically for this.
Paranoid Factoid@RickiTarr "Mastodon isn't for journalists, or brands, or even people who want large accounts?"
How you use Mastodon is up to you. But I want to use the free software and services model to challenge this right wing takeover of media and social media.
That mean attracting professional journalists. And activists. And lawyers. And any others who seek to restore liberal democracy.
That's just me.
@ParanoidFactoid That's actually a good point, #NotAllJournalists, that's the power of open source, you can make it what you want, I'm more speaking about corporate interests trying to get involved where they don't belong and people trying to change established instances to become just like Twitter. This isn't Twitter, but I support anyone trying to speak truth to power.
Peter Brown@ParanoidFactoid @RickiTarr there are already people with seriously large follower counts on Mastodon. Stephen Fry springs to mind.
But people forget how long it took them to build followings on Twitter, and it is impossible to switch followers from one to the other.
However, with time and effort your follower count certainly does grow.
@peterbrown @RickiTarr If you had something of a following on Twitter, some of them migrate over and follow here too.
Dr. Kamella Tate@RickiTarr
Or journos are addicted to the sugar rush of the tweet machine . .
Or journos are addicted to the sugar rush of the tweet machine . .
@kamellatate You aren't wrong about that, and definitely not just journalists.