Mastodawn

Alioth Fox (but you can call me Daddy~)

Queer people aren't saying you CAN'T eat at Chick-fil-A or play Shitty TERF Wizard Game. We're saying that we don't see you as a trustworthy, safe friend if you choose to do so, and you don't get to dictate how we feel about it. You don't get to dictate how your choices affect others' perceptions of you.

It's not even about "boycotts." It's about literally the most basic litmus test possible: asking you to sacrifice something you DON'T EVEN NEED. We're not asking for money. We're not asking you to picket. We're not asking you to go out and hold a sign. We're literally saying "don't eat at this one particular fast food restaurant" and "don't spend money on this one particular video game," both of which are wholly unnecessary leisure activities.

And even if you CAN'T make that tiny sacrifice, literally all you have to do is just... not talk about it? Like... it's not like we're hacking people's computers to figure out whether they've played Shitty TERF Wizard Game or not. The whole conversation really does show how performative and shallow some people are.

Because we're not even saying "you can't play this game." We don't have that power. We're just saying "I do not want to associate with you if you support this." And even that much makes people rage. It's not even that people don't want to be told what to do - it's that people want to do whatever they want without facing any social consequences or negative perceptions from people.

You want no consequences for the choices you make. And you know what? Tough shit. You don't like that you're losing friends over "PoLiTiCs?" Well, I don't like that every day of my trans brothers' and sisters' lives has to be a constant battle because of shitty people who claim they "have nothing against LGBT people" and "some of their best friends are trans," but won't give up a goddamn chicken sandwich for them. But you don't like it when people think badly about you when you won't do even the simplest thing to show those "some of your best friends" that you value your friendship with them? Cry harder. I don't like it when it rains on my birthday, but clouds form and precipitation happens.

Luisf Feb 6, 2023

They want to continue to enjoy those even knowing they are contributing directly to harm.
And they want to be celebrated as allies.

That is the thing, ally is not a thing you are. It is a thing you *do*
And in this case, it is a thing you *don't do*
Negative effort.

And yet
AND YET THEY SPEND SO MUCH EFFORT justifying it.

Some allies.
Fucking hell.

kepler Feb 6, 2023

@AliothFox I'm tired of the myth that you can be an ally just because you call yourself one. If you can't do the bare fucking minimum to support your LGBTQ+ friends/family, then you're not an ally no matter what you call yourself.

Being an ally requires actions, it's not just a label.

Alioth Fox (but you can call me Daddy~)Feb 7, 2023

@kepler In this case we're not even asking for action. We're asking for INACTION. Literally just "don't buy this thing," and they're really not things that are hard not to buy. There is not a single person you know who just... can't live without a mid-tier chicken sandwich and a TERFy Destiny rip-off. Literally just "don't buy this thing." It's the most BASIC ASS TEST of allyship, and so many self-styled "allies" can't pass it.

Pint TiniRu!Feb 6, 2023

@AliothFox prettymuch fucking this

Noxy 🐾🏳️‍🌈Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox FUCKING PREACH.

Ostrich Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox "but where does it end?" says the false ally, illustrating that their conception of the slippery slope risk is the fantastical possibility of normative society being dictated by the collective preferences of queer people, and not the documented repeated empirical cycle of queer people's straight friends standing by when they're quietly marched to the firing lines and gas chambers whilst their literature burns.

Falcon Darkstar Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox I'm not even asking people to make a symbolic sacrifice here. I'm just asking them to pay attention to the fact that giving those people money hurts people like me. If they can't do that they might as well vote red.

squeakyears Feb 7, 2023

It might be odd, but your last paragraph reminds me of one of my favorite quotes about my career. It's the climax of a rant by Alice Caldwell-Kelly on the Well There's Your Problem live show:

All engineering is political. All engineering requires a holistic and materialist view of why the thing was built in the first place. Okay, "bridge fall down", right? Great, fine. Why did they build the bridge there, why did they build it like that, and why is 'like that' often 'cheaply'?

LeoBurr Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox How do you feel about folks who remain on Twitter when Elon is actively hostile to LGBTQIA+ folks/supports right wing fanatics?

Alioth Fox (but you can call me Daddy~)Feb 7, 2023

@LeoBurr That’s a bit apples-to-oranges in my mind. Twitter is a broad, far-reaching communication platform, and even with it in decline, I think it’s important for queer people to be part of the conversation there instead of just rolling over and letting Elon bully them off the platform, especially given how many of them built their personal support networks there. There are obviously alternatives to Twitter, but leaving a network altogether where you’ve built important connections is not at all on the same level as refraining from a single purchase of something literally no one needs.

TLDR: "just leave Twitter" is far and away not as simple as "just don’t play this one game."

LeoBurr Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox Rowling isn’t the only one who is benefiting from the new game. There are game designers, publishers, etc.

Elon OWNS Twitter. All of it. He benefits from anyone’s use if the platform. Eyeballs == Money. Fighting him in his own house has ended in many queer folks being outright banned for no reason.

Are you really sure it’s apples to oranges?

LeoBurr Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox It's a matter of values. To some, the convenience of a local Chick-Fil-A, or their enjoyment of the flavor is more important to them than benefitting people who are hostile to LGBTQIA+ people. To some, using Twitter, where their friends are is more important than the fact that doing so benefits someone who is far right wing and hostile to LGBTQIA+ people. It's not apples to oranges. Apples and oranges are both fruits. And as with most things, there is no black and white. People will make value calls, and they won't always align with your own values. This isn't to say yours aren't valid. :) But some may have childhood memories of Potter that remind them of someone they loved, and they play the game for that reason, and that reason alone. Not because they hate LGBTQIA+ People. And that, per their values, is valid too.

Alioth Fox (but you can call me Daddy~)Feb 7, 2023

@LeoBurr I'm sorry, but putting "I can't leave this chicken behind because it's too convenient and tastes too good" on the same level as "I can't leave this platform behind because it's where the people I've come to rely on as my support network are located" is pretty gross and, quite frankly, tells me everything I need to know about your values.

"This chicken tastes good, and that matters a lot more to me than my queer friends' concerns matter" is what you're saying with that, and making that out as being exactly the same thing as "I can't leave this network because it's where all my friends are" is incredibly disingenuous.

If a chicken sandwich and a single video game matter that much to you, then you do you, but you're never going to be able to convince me that you're a safe person if you do, and that's the point of what I'm saying here. I don't have the right to say "no, you're not allowed to eat/play this." I DO have the right - which I will continue to exercise regularly - to say "if you support these things, I personally want nothing to do with you."

If you think your absurd and contrived false equivalence makes me a hypocrite, then likewise think of me what you will.

LeoBurr Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox Be angrier.

I'm not calling you a hypocrite. People have different value levels at which they'll bend. For some, it's as simple as a chicken sandwich made by people who hate LGBTQ+ people because it's convenient and tasty. For others, it's a video game that reminds them of better times in their life in spite of the IP being owned by a TERF. For others, it's keeping their Twitter account in spite of the whole network being owned by Elon Musk, who is also highly LGBTQ+ unfriendly.

You're free to block/ban/not associate with anyone you want, whether or not they eat a Chick-fil-a sandwich or any other reason. Just as others won't associate with people who continue to use Twitter because they despise Musk and what he represents. Peace out. :)

Alioth Fox (but you can call me Daddy~)Feb 7, 2023

@LeoBurr The entire point of this post is to say "if the 'point at which you will bend' is literally a chicken sandwich, you are not an ally and I don't want you in my life." Hence the CW marked "rant." You came into my mentions and decided to be a debatebro and make it about something completely different, and now you're being a sealion about it. Get lost or get blocked.

[MESSAGE ME TO FOLLOW] green Feb 7, 2023

@LeoBurr this. this is EXACTLY WHAT THE ORIGINAL POST IS ABOUT. this is EXACTLY THAT. why even bother? why not just say "I want to play the TERFy Wizard Game and I don't care that my money is going to be used by a virulent transphobe to enact violence and oppression against trans people"? if you want to sit at the Nazi table, go ahead. you can sit there if you want. nobody's stopping you. we're just *fucking sick* of listening to your endless "slippery slope" and "it's ~~coooomplicated~~" and "all opinions are valid" bullshit while you're doing it.

Croc (formerly @microdile)Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox @LeoBurr

My best friend is trans & I have several trans friends whom I support entirely.

I also love Chik-Fil-A's food, but haven't eaten there in ages, because there are a lot of great food places to pick from that don't contribute to anti-LGBTQ.

I also love Harry Potter but loathe JK Rowling's idiocy. I can't replace the entire Harry Potter universe with something else because there isn't really anything like that, and it's a shame Rowling had to fuck it all up.

(con't)

Croc (formerly @microdile)Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox @LeoBurr

Twitter is run by a raving egomaniac who pretty clearly is supporting many bad things and bad people.

Leaving Twitter certainly can be argued to be a lot harder than not eating a sandwich or playing a video game or watching a movie, this is true.

But I don't think it's disingenuous to say that it's all levels at which we choose how much we accept inconvenience to "do the right thing" when it's complicated.

How many shop at Amazon or patronize other "bad" companies?

Croc (formerly @microdile)Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox @LeoBurr

I totally get why people don't like to see people do things that support those with bad ideas who have influence, money and power.

I just think we need to be aware that it's not quite as simple as sometimes it's presented to be, like "you can't do these things, but those things are okay I guess".

If I had a friend who ate Chik-Fil-A but was otherwise kind, I'd be disappointed, but probably not furious at them. Who you are is a sum total more than one thing, IMHO.

Alioth Fox (but you can call me Daddy~)Feb 7, 2023

@croc We are making this into something it's not. The point of this post is not to make some deep point about "ethical consumption under capitalism" (there is none) or say "you must never even indirectly support a bad person" (since that's not possible). This is literally me saying - and marking with a "rant" CW (for the express purpose of NOT engaging with debatebros; I'm entertaining your point for the moment but my patience is thin) - "If you cannot give up even these two small things, I cannot countenance your claims that you are an ally, because I don't trust your priorities."

You are not ENTITLED to positive optics just because you have "gay/trans friends" (hi, that's tokenism). You don't get to say "no, you're not allowed to think less of someone who eats at Chick-fil-A but be fine with someone who stays on Twitter." You don't get to choose how I perceive your actions.

This post mentioned two specific things: Chick-fil-A and TERF Shitwizard Game. Just that. And I even said IN THE POST "if you can't sacrifice those things, literally all you have to do is not talk about it" - but people simply cannot help themselves (as the replies to this post are indicating). If you can't give up those two things (forget all larger points, forget Twitter, forget Amazon, forget capitalism altogether), I do not consider you a safe person, and you do not get to control my perception of you.

Croc (formerly @microdile)Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox @LeoBurr

Fair enough, I was engaging in good faith as someone who understands why you and those like you are passionate about a cause that deserves passion.

I just don't think that every single person who has ever worked on something that had something to do with JK Rowling supports JK Rowling's transphobia, and unlike Rowling who will be just fine regardless of who gives another penny to her properties, they DO need the money.

Take care and I wish you well.

Alioth Fox (but you can call me Daddy~)Feb 7, 2023

@croc The game developers have all been paid for their work already. They do not get any residuals or royalties, and devs get laid off after a big game's release even when it outperforms expectations. That's an entirely separate discussion, and off the point here. I know you were engaging in good faith, which is the only reason you got a response at all. Apologies for my terseness; I'm just sick of people trying to defend their optics on this when there is - really and truly - nothing there to defend.

Debbie Goldsmith 🏳️‍⚧️♾️🇺🇦Feb 7, 2023

Grif🐱Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox I might try the game eventually just to see what it's like

after I play the 400+ better games that have come out in the last 20 years

Rick Rae Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox
"People want to do whatever they want without facing any social consequences or negative perceptions from people."

This. This right here.

JR Buckley 🏳️‍🌈⚛️Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox 🏆

Femme Malheureuse Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox The crazy thing about the U.S. is that there are so many choices available that avoiding the offensive is easy. My life is and has been just fine in spite of choosing other cheese brands and not anti-LGBTQ+ Sargento brand (founder Lou Gentine is a big GOP funder).

Never had Chick-fil-A, never will, don't miss it.

No more Land O'Lakes so long as its PAC funds Nazi-adjacent politicians.

Avoiding anti-LGBTQ+ brands is the *easy* measure. There are no excuses.

Kevin Granade has moved Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox it's weird though, people can't seem to help themselves even when it's blatantly obvious what's going to happen.
One of the mods on a forum for my game banned someone for their profile literally saying kill trans people.
Someone else saw the ban notification and commented disapprovingly about banning someone based on something in their profile, "it reminds me of when I was banned from <other forum> for something I posted on twitter".
My response of course was, "I guess I need to check your twitter then...", "oh yea homophobia, banned".

Alioth Fox (but you can call me Daddy~)Feb 7, 2023

@kevingranade I run a Telegram chat of 1000-ish users, and we put right in our rules "we will take your behavior from elsewhere into account when we moderate this chat." It’s amazing how many will "literally 1984!" that rule, like… ???

First of all, I had absolutely zero reason to look up your Twitter before you protested that rule, ya dingdong. I have better things to do with my day than comb through every new join’s socials looking for problematic shit.

Second, there’s too many communities where you can get away with being an absolute shitlord on Twitter/Furaffinity/wherever but toe the line in chat, and I didn’t want mine to be one of them.

Third, even if you’re right, "winning" a petty argument with a chat mod is never going to be worth what it costs you to do so.

Brandon "Dreg Mangler" Kirkman Feb 7, 2023

@AliothFox So well said! People want their actions to mean nothing yet their words to do all the work but it simply doesn't work that way. I wish people could even do the basic things to show solidarity and empathy and it really is a litmus test on those things

Colin Feb 8, 2023

@AliothFox @deviantollam this.
When I see a “friend” willfully boast and show and prove they’ve eaten or supported establishments like that… yeah, I’m out.
The MOST basic support they could do, couldn’t even be done.

Alioth Fox (but you can call me Daddy~)Feb 8, 2023

@colinstu @deviantollam And literally all they had to do was just not say anything. It's not like you're following them around to see where they eat. They ALWAYS tell on themselves.

Deviant Ollam Feb 8, 2023

@AliothFox @colinstu yarp

Colin Feb 8, 2023

@AliothFox @deviantollam YUP!!!

seattlebateblog Feb 12, 2023

@AliothFox I haven’t even told people they can’t play it. Just to be aware of the blatant antisemitic symbolism within the game (on top of the terfiness). The response I’ve gotten from within the queer community is “but there’s a trans character so let me enjoy the game,” while they’re totally happy to throw another minority community, which has *always* been on our side of history, under the bus.

GraveScarecrow Apr 21, 2023

@AliothFox absolutely. Anyone who can't be bothered to show the goddamn MINIMUM of support can f right off.