daniel s.Jan 31, 2023
you can't reform this
Show threadRay Gulick, he/him/wtf ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ โŒ๐Ÿ‘‘

@selfagency
LEO are trained to fear for their safety and react with deadly force, particularly if the detainee is a black male.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can 'untrain' fear that's been drilled into LEO via training and culture.

#KillerPolice

Jan 31, 2023 at 2:58pmWeb
Show threadNina WilsonJan 31, 2023
@rgulick @selfagency You can re-train them out of this but it is a bit like getting someone off drugs then putting them back with their mates that are still using. You have to re-train the whole force and you have to convince seasoned cops that de-escalation can work in many cases (it will never work with all of them). You have to do this in parallel with getting rid of the ACAB attitude in the public (or certain sectors of the public).
Show threadRay Gulick, he/him/wtf ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ โŒ๐Ÿ‘‘Jan 31, 2023

@NinaWilson @selfagency
That doesn't sound like retraining has a realistic shot at succeeding.

Honestly, I think armed cops should not be making traffic stops (unless they're in pursuit of robbery or murder suspects, perhaps), and they should not be detaining people who are not actively engaged in criminal conduct.

I think we need to make traffic violations, vagrancy, and other low-level issues the responsibility of an unarmed force (similar to UK).

Show threadNina WilsonJan 31, 2023
@rgulick @selfagency But there will be occasions when someone is speeding or runs a red light because they're getting away from a crime and they have a gun. So an unarmed cop gets shot. It is extremely rare in the UK for criminals to carry guns, even more rare than police doing traffic stops.
Also, note that in in several high profile cases, men being arrested have been killed without guns. Not having a gun doesn't prevent cops being violent.
Show threadCaptainSmartassFeb 1, 2023

@rgulick @NinaWilson @selfagency we need to just disarm police entirely. Keep a SWAT team around for special occasions, but they never leave the station on patrol and only respond to specific incidents.

Rank and file police cannot be trusted with firearms. Period.

Show threadNina WilsonFeb 1, 2023
@captainsmartass @rgulick @selfagency It is almost that in the UK. Diplomatic protection, airports, nuclear plants have armed police. Everywhere else there are highly trained armed response teams that drive around with guns in a secure box. The guns don't come out unless there's an incident that requires them.
I get where you're coming from with them not leaving the station, but that has 2 problems. They'll get bored and over-react when they get let out, the criminals know the response time.
Show threadCaptainSmartassFeb 1, 2023
@NinaWilson @rgulick @selfagency good point about the response time and the team getting bored. I amend my motion.
Show threadBig Head TalesFeb 1, 2023

@rgulick @NinaWilson @selfagency
I don't disagree, but I'm not sure this would work in the US with the plague of guns everywhere.

As much as I agree that heavily armed military cops are a murder waiting to happen in every traffic stop, I don't want to see officers become sitting ducks.

Show threadYa BoyJan 31, 2023

@NinaWilson @rgulick @selfagency

Extremely naive. Also punching down and to the left.
Cops sign up to be cops because they want a license to kill and abuse. The term ACAB exists because it is a universal truth.
You think youโ€™re going to train empathy lacking narcissistic sociopaths toโ€ฆ not be?
To what end? They exist to keep the rich rich and the poor poor, incarcerated and dead.

Show threadRay Gulick, he/him/wtf ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ โŒ๐Ÿ‘‘Jan 31, 2023

@Hanso @NinaWilson @selfagency

Right! I don't think you can train people who've become sociopaths to not be sociopaths. Even intensive psychiatry would a long-shot.

Show threadNina WilsonJan 31, 2023
@rgulick @Hanso @selfagency There'll be some you can't retrain, not denying that. But the training helps identify them so they can be got rid of.
Show threaddaniel s.Jan 31, 2023
@NinaWilson @rgulick @Hanso there's somewhere around 1.5 million cops in the u.s., good luck with that
Show threadNina WilsonJan 31, 2023
@selfagency @rgulick @Hanso Yes, huge job. But probably best to start with smaller forces. More chance of making a noticable change. Also, very important to train new recruits right.
Show threadRay Gulick, he/him/wtf ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ โŒ๐Ÿ‘‘Jan 31, 2023

@NinaWilson @Hanso @selfagency

I still think retraining is not how you deal with sociopathy.

Show threadNina WilsonJan 31, 2023
@rgulick @Hanso @selfagency Sorry, should have been clear, the sociopaths are the ones that can't be retrained.
Show threadCoach Pฤแน‡ini ยฎJan 31, 2023

@NinaWilson @rgulick @Hanso @selfagency a psychological screening for new recruits > training.

Institutional culture only changes one funeral at a time.

Show threadNina WilsonFeb 1, 2023
@paninid @rgulick @Hanso @selfagency Not sure if psychological screening can pick out all the problems. Certainly much more vetting in terms of talking to people that know them, checking what they were like at school etc. and properly investigating any complaints against them once they're in.
Show threadNina WilsonJan 31, 2023
@Hanso @rgulick @selfagency I've been on the receiving end of police violence and seen them turn away from violence of others they approve of. I'm not in the slightest bit naive. There are good cops and they may be few and far between, more in some places than others. But part of the purpose of retraining is to pick out those that are in for all the wrong reasons and get rid of them whilst changing the attitudes of those it is possible to change.
Otherwise what? No police at all?
Show threadCoach Pฤแน‡ini ยฎJan 31, 2023
@NinaWilson @rgulick @selfagency this sort of wholesale transformation is a wicked problem
Show threadaditya ๐ŸŒฑFeb 1, 2023
@NinaWilson @rgulick @selfagency but all cops *are* bastards