Mastodawn

Jon Jan 22, 2023

Wow. RStudio (recently rebranded as Posit) is partnering with Palantir. Yes, the same Palantir with ties to Cambridge Analytica. The same Palantir that partners with and actively supports ICE and other oppressive surveillance.

This is really not ok ethically, and can only mean a bad direction functionally for the company's software going forward. I never use RStudio for research myself, but it looks like I'll stop using it in teaching.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/palantir-posit-partner-integrate-rstudio-115900656.html

#rstudio #palantir #posit #ice

Yahooist Teil der Yahoo Markenfamilie

Joanna Pepin Jan 15, 2023

@peter_mcmahan 😳😣

Lorena Rosaleny #AúnEnPandemia Jan 15, 2023

@peter_mcmahan
Also, Palantir has more than one or two ethical problems... Palantir has a lot of problems with human rights issues. I'm really dissapointed in Posit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palantir_Technologies#Controversies

#palantir #posit #rstudio

Palantir Technologies - Wikipedia

Le Néandertal se sent las, las Jan 15, 2023

@peter_mcmahan is there an alternative with similar advantages for teaching? (in particular I think the debugger is really improved)

pmcm Jan 15, 2023

@HydrePrever I don't have any perfect tools in mind, but I also found RStudio lacking in a lot of ways for teaching (many of it's 'smart' features just get in the way).

That said, I'll probably look at VSCode as my first line -- I know it has good integration for RMarkdown/Quarto which I see as the biggest advantage of RStudio for teaching.

People have also pointed out https://r.analyticflow.com/en/ and https://www.getarchitect.io/, but I haven't looked at them beyond a cursory read of their sites.

R AnalyticFlow

Open source data analysis software built on R, for interactive data analysis with or without R programming. Works on Windows, Mac, and Linux.

R AnalyticFlow

Nicola Romanò Jan 28, 2023

@HydrePrever @peter_mcmahan I generally suggest using VSCode, since you can use it for any other language as well. However I don't like telling students they should use a specific environment. I'll let them decide. I've used RStudio for a long time and I believe that, politics aside, they did an amazing job at improving the R community and increase the popularity of R.

While I see some reasons to use base R in some situations I profoundly dislike certain 'holier than thou' attitudes towards using tidyverse or ggplot.
It was that type of attitude that kept me away from using Linux for a long time.

Le Néandertal se sent las, las Jan 28, 2023

@nicolaromano @peter_mcmahan https://m.xkcd.com/378/

xkcd: Real Programmers

John Faithfull🌍🇪🇺🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🧡 ✊🏼✊🏿Jan 22, 2023

@peter_mcmahan Wut TF??? 😱

Forest Gregg Jan 22, 2023

@peter_mcmahan do you use any hadley wickham’s packages? that seems like a harder ecosystem to untangle from.

pmcm Jan 22, 2023

@fgregg As far as I know, I don't. I somehow avoided the tidyverse this whole time -- straight data.frame and data.table. I always found the 'tidy' approach really confusing, honestly.

Forest Gregg Jan 22, 2023

@peter_mcmahan yes, but no ggplot or devtools?

pmcm Jan 22, 2023

@fgregg oh devtools I for sure use, good point. But no ggplot -- I'm a dinosaur who strongly prefers the base R graphics.

Thomas Jan 22, 2023

@peter_mcmahan I've never liked RStudio as the marketing messages have had an air of "embrace of death". I've been using NVIM-R from the start. It's certainly not that easy to get used to but it even runs on a Raspberry Pi (certainly good enough for learning, see link below). Working with a lightweight installation has the advantage that a complete R installation can be put in a Docker image. For reproducibility this is as good as it gets.

https://gist.github.com/TG9541/4b776abd1238c9c226f7f6261e4f29b1

Using R on a Raspberry Pi Zero W

Using R on a Raspberry Pi Zero W. GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

Gist

pmcm Jan 22, 2023

@tg9541 nvim-r looks very cool, I'll check it out. Definitely not going to try to teach my students vim, though 😆

Thomas Jan 22, 2023

@peter_mcmahan right, it's known to be the original ESCape room ;-)

I love it, though - once the hands "know" the keystrokes it's a wonderful environment. I've also used it in combination with the Awesome window manager - really nice.

Pat Jan 22, 2023

You can do R in Jupyter, I think. A blind acquaintance is also working on Quarto: https://quarto.org/

Quarto

An open source technical publishing system for creating beautiful articles, websites, blogs, books, slides, and more. Supports Python, R, Julia, and JavaScript.

Quarto

Lyle Solla-Yates Jan 22, 2023

@peter_mcmahan your link doesn’t work for me but this one does https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/palantir-and-posit-partner-to-integrate-rstudio-into-palantir-foundry-301718701.html

Palantir and Posit Partner to Integrate RStudio into Palantir Foundry

/PRNewswire/ -- Palantir Technologies Inc. ("Palantir") (NYSE: PLTR), a leading builder of operating systems for the modern enterprise, and Posit, the...

Maarten Demeyer Jan 23, 2023

@peter_mcmahan In practice this 'partnership' is just RStudio products being able to run within their ecosystem though, right? That is hardly an exclusive thing, and frankly what I would expect RStudio to be trying to achieve for every platform out there.

HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴Jan 23, 2023

@davetroy:
What are #PeterThiel and the other three riders of the #Apocalypse up to now with this colaboration of #Palantir and #RStudio/ #Posit, after the #CambrigeAnalytica scandals?

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/palantir-and-posit-partner-to-integrate-rstudio-into-palantir-foundry-301718701.html

Palantir and Posit Partner to Integrate RStudio into Palantir Foundry

/PRNewswire/ -- Palantir Technologies Inc. ("Palantir") (NYSE: PLTR), a leading builder of operating systems for the modern enterprise, and Posit, the...

Fifthcolumnblue Jan 23, 2023

@HistoPol @peter_mcmahan @davetroy

Archived copy for those who don't subscribe to the NYT:
.https://archive.is/h8c3F

Mark Jan 23, 2023

@HistoPol
If that's the right URL perhaps you could spell how it's linked to Thiel, Palantir, Posit and RStudio in a little more detail.
@peter_mcmahan @davetroy

HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴Jan 23, 2023

@zl2tod @peter_mcmahan @davetroy

Hi Mark,
you are absolutely right in asking, whether this was the right URL, thanks. It was not, my apologies. I have fixed that:
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/palantir-and-posit-partner-to-integrate-rstudio-into-palantir-foundry-301718701.html

Palantir and Posit Partner to Integrate RStudio into Palantir Foundry

/PRNewswire/ -- Palantir Technologies Inc. ("Palantir") (NYSE: PLTR), a leading builder of operating systems for the modern enterprise, and Posit, the...

HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴Jan 23, 2023

@zl2tod @peter_mcmahan @davetroy

The (changed) article explains the new connection between #RStudio and #Palantir:
"Palantir and #PositPartner to Integrate #RStudio into Palantir Foundry".

Regarding #PeterThiels personal connection, he is co-founder of Palantir:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/22/palantirs-peter-thiel-surveillance-ai-is-more-concerning-than-agi.html

And here is the connection b/w Palantir and #CambridgeAnalytica (e.g.):

"👉#PeterThiel's Palantir worked with #CambridgeAnalytica on the #Facebook data👈, whistleblower alleges"

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/peter-thiel-apos-palantir-worked-121900994.html

Palantir's Peter Thiel thinks people should be concerned about surveillance AI

Tech billionaire Peter Thiel said this week that people should be more worried about "surveillance AI" than artificial general intelligences.

CNBC

Mark Jan 23, 2023

@HistoPol
Thanks for that.
We're well aware of #CitizenThiel here in NZ.
There was a scandal a few years back whereby he acquired New Zealand citizenship in very shady circumstances.
He has a bit of a doomsday bunker down south which I believe is on the market.
@peter_mcmahan @davetroy

HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴Jan 23, 2023

@zl2tod @peter_mcmahan @davetroy

Interesting, I had not been aware of this. Thanks.

Mark Jan 23, 2023

@HistoPol How Peter Thiel became a New Zealand Citizen
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-got-new-zealand-citizenship/
@peter_mcmahan @davetroy

Citizen Thiel

From crush to courtship to ghosting, an NZ Herald investigation tracks New Zealand’s relationship with a Facebook billionaire.

Mark Jan 23, 2023

@HistoPol
In 2015 artist Simon Denny created Secret Power, New Zealand's entry in the Venice Biennale, in collaboration with Nicky Hager who wrote the book of the same name
https://www.tepapa.govt.nz/about/past-exhibitions/simon-denny-secret-power
@peter_mcmahan @davetroy

Simon Denny: Secret Power

Simon Denny’s acclaimed Venice Biennale exhibition Secret Power explores surveillance, espionage, and New Zealand’s role in the Five Eyes international intelligence alliance.

Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa, Wellington, NZ

Mark Jan 23, 2023

@HistoPol
In November 2017, Simon Denny’s The Founder’s Paradox opened at Michael Lett Gallery in Auckland, the first solo exhibition Denny had made specifically for New Zealand audiences in several years. His starting point for the project was local: the news, broken by New Zealand Herald journalist Matt Nippert in early 2017, that the billionaire tech investor and Donald Trump supporter Peter Thiel was in fact a New Zealand citizen.
https://christchurchartgallery.org.nz/exhibitions/simon-denny
@peter_mcmahan @davetroy

Simon Denny: The Founder's Paradox

The Founder’s Paradox uses gaming to reflect on competing political visions for New Zealand’s future.

legraLeGra Jan 23, 2023

@peter_mcmahan @Iragersh

Agh. I only use r-studio for visualization (FORTRAN does the real stuff) and teaching/students.

What’s the next best thing?

Something that can run on osx, windows, and (bonus!) Linux.

T. Austin Brown Jan 23, 2023

@peter_mcmahan Hi, I have some questions about this. I'm using Rstudio now. I like it because it seemed pretty intuitive when I was stepping up my stats usage for my dissertation.
I'm not sure how this change is going to affect the software. It's open-source and I don't think I paid for it, but looking at the site, there are paid plans.
Are we going to lose function? Have spyware added, or just have to drop it when we have to pay?
I don't like this change, but I don't know what it means.

Julien Colomb Feb 2, 2023

@AustinB @peter_mcmahan nothing to be afraid of apparently https://posit.co/blog/posit-and-palantir/

Posit and Palantir - Posit

In this blog post, we hope to clarify the nature of our relationship with Palantir.

Posit

kbkorb Jan 23, 2023

Palantir is *the* name in oppressive surveillance.

The Dark Lord would be proud of Thiel.

Detlef Steuer Jan 23, 2023

@peter_mcmahan Wow. That's depressing news. I only use #rstudio or #posit for teaching, but probably will stop doing so and spread the word to my colleages. Some money smells. 😠 😖 😱

Frank Ostermann Jan 23, 2023

"We believe corporations should fulfill a purpose beneficial to the public and be run for the benefit of all stakeholders including [...] the community at large. As a Delaware Public Benefit Corporation (PBC) and a Certified B Corporation®, RStudio’s open-source mission and commitment to a beneficial public purpose are codified in our charter, [...]. B Corps™ meet the highest verified standards of social and environmental performance, transparency, and accountability." https://posit.co/about/pbc-report/ 😂

Posit

A Message from our CEO Posit aims to create free and open-source software for data science, scientific research, and technical communication in a sustainable way, because it benefits everyone when the essential tools to produce and consume knowledge are available to all, regardless of economic means. We believe corporations should fulfill a purpose beneficial to […]

Posit

joeldn Jan 23, 2023

@f_ostermann i wonder what effect this will have on r as a whole, a lot of their most fashionable packages come out of that stable (ggplot, tidyverse, dplyr ... ) though they could get forked as per mapbox -> maplibre for example.

https://www.rstudio.com/about/rstudio-open-source-packages/

RStudio Open-Source Packages

In 2019, RStudio spent over 50% of its engineering resources on open-source software, and led contributions to over 250 open-source projects, targeting a broad range of areas.

Marcel Cardillo Jan 23, 2023

@peter_mcmahan @Diana_mammalecology Hmm, glad I always stuck with base R & never bothered with RStudio

David Eccles 🌻🇵🇸6x🩹🛡️Jan 23, 2023

@peter_mcmahan gah, dammit. Why does *every* piece of commercial software have to turn evil?

I guess I'm going to stop recommending RStudio from now on....

Christopher Jan 23, 2023

@peter_mcmahan Who goes and names their data listening business after the objects Sauron used to spread his influence to powerful individuals other wise people once believed to be incorruptible?

All of those 90s kids/tween shows and movies where the bad guy has a corporation named something like Evil Inc. are feeling a lot less ridiculous these days.

Fuzzbizz Jan 23, 2023

@peter_mcmahan Never saw worse codebases than R. "what's a unit test?"

Matt BK Jan 23, 2023

@peter_mcmahan kind of sad how the replies to this disappointing news have devolved into criticisms of R and Rstudio (the program), rather than Rstudio/Posit the company.

Dave 🦔Jan 23, 2023

@peter_mcmahan If anyone wants to comment directly to #RStudio / #Posit about this #Palantir collaboration, somebody has raised the issue on their forums and you can share your own concerns there as a user: https://community.rstudio.com/t/posit-partners-with-palantir/157411

Posit partners with... Palantir?!

@jennybryan Maybe the Posit President would like to update his "boilerplate language" of "we look forward to a long-standing partnership with Palantir." (press release, verbatim) with "We did them a little technical integration as a favour for no money and we'll have a jolly good think about doing that again because we've upset some people".

RStudio Community

pmcm Jan 23, 2023

@_dmh Thanks for this -- I hadn't seen anything from Posit yet on this.

I see Hadley responded in there, but it's not really a satisfying answer. If I have it right, his explanation is that they could make money by integrating with Palantir Foundry. That's, um, not exactly the exonerating statement he hoped it was.

Ken Hudson Jan 23, 2023

@_dmh @peter_mcmahan I’m new to #R, #rstudio, etc. However, I did notice that Palantir was a sponsor of #rstudioconf (2022) so why the surprise about this business partnership?

Dave 🦔Jan 23, 2023

@kohudson @peter_mcmahan For my part, I'm a user of #R in #Rstudio but not someone who goes to #RstudioConf or watches the talks afterward. I'll also observe that there is a difference between taking sponsorship money and collaborating in a business partnership with someone.

Cameron Mulder Jan 23, 2023

@_dmh @kohudson @peter_mcmahan based on what I have read this partnership sounds pretty minimual in that it is making sure rstudio runs well on palantirs platform. this doesn't seem like a big deal to me but maybe i'm missing something

Dave 🦔Jan 24, 2023

@Mulderc @kohudson @peter_mcmahan How much have you read about #Palantir? The company is run by Peter Thiel received funding from the CIA to get started. It seems to be mostly funded through US military, intelligence, and immigration policing contracts. More recently it's been trying to diversify with healthcare contracts. It's appalling in other ways, too: even if you believe governments need these technologies, this kind of public-private partnership ensures private profit at public expense

Dave 🦔Jan 24, 2023

@Mulderc @kohudson @peter_mcmahan Given #Palantir's close ties to US military and intelligence agencies, not to mention ICE, I think it's perfectly reasonable for users of software developed by a "public benefit corporation" to object to its employees going out of their way to make life easier for Palantir.

I don't think #Rstudio / #Posit should support Palantir and I'm surprised that @hadleywickham is okay with it.

Hadley Wickham Jan 24, 2023

@_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson @peter_mcmahan We've tried to better explain exactly what the "partnership" is in this blog post: https://posit.co/blog/posit-and-palantir/.

Posit and Palantir - Posit

In this blog post, we hope to clarify the nature of our relationship with Palantir.

Posit

Dave 🦔Jan 25, 2023

@hadleywickham @Mulderc @kohudson @peter_mcmahan This doesn't address the fundamental concern with Palantir's work. Supporting Palantir customers is still supporting Palantir.

Hadley Wickham Jan 25, 2023

@_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson @peter_mcmahan maybe it's too fine a distinction, but I'd consider this work supporting our customers.

pmcm Jan 25, 2023

@hadleywickham @_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson
Certainly, it's not a cut-and-dry issue. However, it really does seem that facilitating people using Palanir's products more easily and in more ways helps Palantir. You can split hairs about who Posit is doing this "for". But in the end this move supports Palantir and their objectives.

Hadley Wickham Jan 25, 2023

@peter_mcmahan @_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson if you believe that palantir and/or the preponderance of their customers are evil, I acknowledge that there’s nothing we can say that will make you happy with us having any relationship, however minor, with them.

pmcm Jan 25, 2023

@hadleywickham @_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson I think you've hit on the heart of the issue. A great many people, with good reason, think that Palantir is an especially horrendous company (see the many comments in these threads for ample evidence). And I think the surprise/outrage you're seeing is around the revelation that the folks at Posit like yourself don't agree. This is especially the case since Posit/RStudio has built a reputation for being community focused and socially aware.

Ken Hudson Jan 25, 2023

@peter_mcmahan @hadleywickham @_dmh @Mulderc My opinion: Hadley and the others did a good job of clarifying the situation in the latest blog post and I appreciate their efforts.

Dave 🦔Jan 25, 2023

@peter_mcmahan @hadleywickham @Mulderc @kohudson Yeah, it feels wrong for a company attempting to be socially responsible to encourage others to work with such a reprehensible company, even if that encouragement takes the form of "you don't have so many challenges trying to use your preferred stats stack if you also want to use BadCo's software". Rstudio, etc, could be a pain point and extra friction discouraging folks from working with Palantir, but chooses not to be.

Hadley Wickham Jan 25, 2023

@_dmh @peter_mcmahan @Mulderc @kohudson I think you greatly over estimate how much influence we have here. A company isn’t going to stop using palantir foundry (which they have spent millions on for specific data governance needs) just because a few data scientists can’t use their preferred IDE.

pmcm Jan 25, 2023

@hadleywickham @_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson I don't think anybody is arguing that Posit is the pillar holding up Palantir Foundry. Or even necessarily that Posit pulling out of this collaboration would be the last straw for Palantir to lose a major contract. With overtly oppressive organizations like Palantir, one should aim to add friction. Make it a pain to work with. Make it harder for the best data scientists to do their best work there. But instead, Posit is working to make these things easier.

Dave 🦔Jan 25, 2023

@peter_mcmahan @hadleywickham @Mulderc @kohudson Reading Jenny's comment and the one framing the "integration" as actually just making bring-your-own-license possible made the whole thing make more sense to me. Part of what I appreciated from Jenny's personal comment was the explicit statement that she'd rather have nothing to do with Palantir, which acknowledges that they're an objectionable enterprise unlike the official response which tries to frame everything as value neutral.

Erin Jonaitis Jan 25, 2023

@hadleywickham @_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson @peter_mcmahan I appreciate your writing about this. Curious whether the team at Posit was caught off guard by the Palantir press release — that’s the impression I was left with. I’m realizing I don’t know whether the nature and timing of press releases are normally an explicit part of agreements between companies in situations like this one.

Hadley Wickham Jan 25, 2023

@emjonaitis Yes, we messed up

Nicole Göbel Jan 23, 2023

@peter_mcmahan 😦