pmcmJan 15, 2023

Wow. RStudio (recently rebranded as Posit) is partnering with Palantir. Yes, the same Palantir with ties to Cambridge Analytica. The same Palantir that partners with and actively supports ICE and other oppressive surveillance.

This is really not ok ethically, and can only mean a bad direction functionally for the company's software going forward. I never use RStudio for research myself, but it looks like I'll stop using it in teaching.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/palantir-posit-partner-integrate-rstudio-115900656.html

#rstudio #palantir #posit #ice

Yahooist Teil der Yahoo Markenfamilie

Show threadDave 🦔Jan 23, 2023
@peter_mcmahan If anyone wants to comment directly to #RStudio / #Posit about this #Palantir collaboration, somebody has raised the issue on their forums and you can share your own concerns there as a user: https://community.rstudio.com/t/posit-partners-with-palantir/157411
Posit partners with... Palantir?!

@jennybryan Maybe the Posit President would like to update his "boilerplate language" of "we look forward to a long-standing partnership with Palantir." (press release, verbatim) with "We did them a little technical integration as a favour for no money and we'll have a jolly good think about doing that again because we've upset some people".

RStudio Community
Show threadKen HudsonJan 23, 2023
@_dmh @peter_mcmahan I’m new to #R, #rstudio, etc. However, I did notice that Palantir was a sponsor of #rstudioconf (2022) so why the surprise about this business partnership?
Show threadDave 🦔Jan 23, 2023
@kohudson @peter_mcmahan For my part, I'm a user of #R in #Rstudio but not someone who goes to #RstudioConf or watches the talks afterward. I'll also observe that there is a difference between taking sponsorship money and collaborating in a business partnership with someone.
Show threadCameron MulderJan 23, 2023
@_dmh @kohudson @peter_mcmahan based on what I have read this partnership sounds pretty minimual in that it is making sure rstudio runs well on palantirs platform. this doesn't seem like a big deal to me but maybe i'm missing something
Show threadDave 🦔Jan 24, 2023
@Mulderc @kohudson @peter_mcmahan How much have you read about #Palantir? The company is run by Peter Thiel received funding from the CIA to get started. It seems to be mostly funded through US military, intelligence, and immigration policing contracts. More recently it's been trying to diversify with healthcare contracts. It's appalling in other ways, too: even if you believe governments need these technologies, this kind of public-private partnership ensures private profit at public expense
Show threadDave 🦔Jan 24, 2023

@Mulderc @kohudson @peter_mcmahan Given #Palantir's close ties to US military and intelligence agencies, not to mention ICE, I think it's perfectly reasonable for users of software developed by a "public benefit corporation" to object to its employees going out of their way to make life easier for Palantir.

I don't think #Rstudio / #Posit should support Palantir and I'm surprised that @hadleywickham is okay with it.

Show threadHadley WickhamJan 24, 2023
@_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson @peter_mcmahan We've tried to better explain exactly what the "partnership" is in this blog post: https://posit.co/blog/posit-and-palantir/.
Posit and Palantir - Posit

In this blog post, we hope to clarify the nature of our relationship with Palantir.

Posit
Show threadDave 🦔
@hadleywickham @Mulderc @kohudson @peter_mcmahan This doesn't address the fundamental concern with Palantir's work. Supporting Palantir customers is still supporting Palantir.
Jan 25, 2023 at 12:21amWeb
Show threadHadley WickhamJan 25, 2023
@_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson @peter_mcmahan maybe it's too fine a distinction, but I'd consider this work supporting our customers.
Show threadpmcmJan 25, 2023
@hadleywickham @_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson
Certainly, it's not a cut-and-dry issue. However, it really does seem that facilitating people using Palanir's products more easily and in more ways helps Palantir. You can split hairs about who Posit is doing this "for". But in the end this move supports Palantir and their objectives.
Show threadHadley WickhamJan 25, 2023
@peter_mcmahan @_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson if you believe that palantir and/or the preponderance of their customers are evil, I acknowledge that there’s nothing we can say that will make you happy with us having any relationship, however minor, with them.
Show threadpmcmJan 25, 2023
@hadleywickham @_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson I think you've hit on the heart of the issue. A great many people, with good reason, think that Palantir is an especially horrendous company (see the many comments in these threads for ample evidence). And I think the surprise/outrage you're seeing is around the revelation that the folks at Posit like yourself don't agree. This is especially the case since Posit/RStudio has built a reputation for being community focused and socially aware.
Show threadKen HudsonJan 25, 2023
@peter_mcmahan @hadleywickham @_dmh @Mulderc My opinion: Hadley and the others did a good job of clarifying the situation in the latest blog post and I appreciate their efforts.
Show threadDave 🦔Jan 25, 2023
@peter_mcmahan @hadleywickham @Mulderc @kohudson Yeah, it feels wrong for a company attempting to be socially responsible to encourage others to work with such a reprehensible company, even if that encouragement takes the form of "you don't have so many challenges trying to use your preferred stats stack if you also want to use BadCo's software". Rstudio, etc, could be a pain point and extra friction discouraging folks from working with Palantir, but chooses not to be.
Show threadHadley WickhamJan 25, 2023
@_dmh @peter_mcmahan @Mulderc @kohudson I think you greatly over estimate how much influence we have here. A company isn’t going to stop using palantir foundry (which they have spent millions on for specific data governance needs) just because a few data scientists can’t use their preferred IDE.
Show threadpmcmJan 25, 2023
@hadleywickham @_dmh @Mulderc @kohudson I don't think anybody is arguing that Posit is the pillar holding up Palantir Foundry. Or even necessarily that Posit pulling out of this collaboration would be the last straw for Palantir to lose a major contract. With overtly oppressive organizations like Palantir, one should aim to add friction. Make it a pain to work with. Make it harder for the best data scientists to do their best work there. But instead, Posit is working to make these things easier.
Show threadDave 🦔Jan 25, 2023
@peter_mcmahan @hadleywickham @Mulderc @kohudson Reading Jenny's comment and the one framing the "integration" as actually just making bring-your-own-license possible made the whole thing make more sense to me. Part of what I appreciated from Jenny's personal comment was the explicit statement that she'd rather have nothing to do with Palantir, which acknowledges that they're an objectionable enterprise unlike the official response which tries to frame everything as value neutral.