Chris DartJan 17, 2023
Augie Ray

If #COVID19 gaslighting were applied to other risks:

“We tried laws against murder, yet murders still occur. We must rescind those laws and learn to live with murder.”

“People are tired of not smoking, so we should just ignore the risks and allow smoking, again.”

“I feel safe driving drunk, so I should be free to do so.”

“Seatbelts can trap you in a car after an accident, so you should avoid wearing them.”

“There's a mass shooter in the mall, but I really want to shop, so I will do so.”

Jan 17, 2023 at 9:19amWeb
Show threadFrank Bennett 🇯🇵Jan 17, 2023
@augieray A lot of people can still see after drinking methanol. Why does the nanny state force us to drink only ethanol?
Show threadPinky JonesJan 17, 2023
@augieray
You're bang on the mark again, Augie ☑️
Show threadotterkaosJan 17, 2023
@augieray Sars2 has evolved, is no longer a new virus and 99.9% survive. The only risk is if one doesn’t have an intact immune system. Those individuals must take precautions even if SARS2 was not endemic
Show threadAugie RayJan 17, 2023
@otterkaos That is entirely incorrect. Over 100 studies show it can damage brains, hearts and immune systems (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12VbMkvqUF9eSggJsdsFEjKs5x0ABxQJi5tvfzJIDd3U/edit?usp=sharing). And one recent study found most long COVID cases are in non-hospitalized patients with a mild acute illness and debilitating illness occurs in at least 10% SARS-CoV-2 infections (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2). I hope you'll be better informed.
COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2 Studies

Google Docs
Show threadNateJan 17, 2023
@augieray gun control in the US is the obvious and unfortunate precedent here.
Show threadBertwoodJan 17, 2023
@augieray this certainly applies to other issues exposed to gaslighting. That first example of yours made me think of guns.
Show threadShannonJan 17, 2023
@augieray Right now it's all cognitive dissonance. There is a fun thread on Mastodon that wasn't posted too long ago about something they are calling "car brain". This is where people answer questions differently when they relate to driving versus not driving. Humans do this sort of mental reasoning a lot to justify actions. Thanks for the good examples.
Show threadSnerk RabbledauberJan 17, 2023

@augieray

The seatbelt one actually was used a lot back when seatbelts were still new.

Show threadA Concerned ScientistJan 17, 2023

@augieray

The slippery slope is, sadly, real. I've been told multiple times "Who cares if there's polio circulating? The death rate's only 1%."

I'm already seeing the exact same argument for "who cares about measles?" online now. It's going to continue until the burden is, literally, medieval probably.

Show threadSatyros Phil BrucatoJan 17, 2023
@augieray That last one is pretty much the argument against gun control. Except that instead of "the mall" it's "your kid's school, but he needs to deal with it so that I can have guns."
Show threadPoochJan 17, 2023
@SatyrB @augieray similar discussion. Both will cost lives and as such real money. Fortifying schools instead of academic excellence, spending money to protect people who don’t want COVID or past Viruses like Polio to evolve and proliferate. At the end of the day when someone else’s stupidity costs me and my family health risk and money, it needs to stop. Seat belts, gun laws, vaccines, traffic lights, DUI…. A very capitalist, Republican, Libertarian concept…
Show threadHexorgJan 17, 2023
@augieray serveral people personally told me their anti-seatbelt stance just like in your example.
Show threadmx alex tax1a - 2020 (6)Jan 17, 2023
@augieray the problem with posts like this is that it gets gaslit people to be like "yes! we should ignore those risks and allow people to smoke and murder and drive drunk"
Show threadRed FasterJan 17, 2023
@augieray "We know the vaccine is neither safe nor effective but it's so much more profitable to call the injuries symptoms"
Show threadLonewolfJan 17, 2023
@augieray but my freedom! That cloth violated ma rights!
Show threadnewsorpigalJan 17, 2023
@augieray
There is genunine concern that some Covid restrictions are not as effective as advertised. Given how some restrictions can literally ruin lives, it is important to enact measures if and only if they are effective.
Show threadAugie RayJan 17, 2023
@newsorpigal 1.1 million Americans have died of COVID-19. Tens of millions have been acutely or chronically disabled. Are you seriously arguing that some restrictions have ruined more lives? And how does wearing a mask ruin lives?
Show threadnewsorpigalJan 18, 2023
@augieray
Masking wasn't the only restriction. Lockdowns, travel restrictions and curfews all ruined lives.
Show threadAugie RayJan 18, 2023
@newsorpigal I find that a lazy argument. COVID ruins lives--it kills people and leaves a significant percentage with lasting damage to hearts, brains and immune systems. Travel restrictions and lockdowns disrupted lives. And, if we don't do the simple things we need to prevent mass disability, we'll ruin more lives. If you really cared about ruining lives, you'd want more cautions against the spread, mutation and damage COVID causes.
Show threadnewsorpigalJan 18, 2023
@augieray
I wish things were as simple as that. But the world is a complicated place. Many of the advertised restrictions against Covid are not backed up by data. Some are even counter productive. For example curfews result in panic buying at stores right before curfew starts, which are perfect super-spreader events.
Show threadAugie RayJan 18, 2023
@newsorpigal In fact, people who claim that COVID restrictions aren't back by data are generally, find, listening to poor sources. We know masks work (though you can find rare studies that say otherwise.) We know lower density public spaces works. And we know better ventilation and filtration work. None of those ruin lives--they only save lives. Fighting against modest precautions and in support of more people getting seriously ill or dying strikes me as a very dubious angle to argue.
Show threadnewsorpigalJan 18, 2023
@augieray You are deliberately cherry picking the few measures that have minimal impact on society. No one is complaining about better ventilation. But many covid measures do have enormous negative impact on society: lockdowns, curfews, travel bans...
Show threadAugie RayJan 18, 2023
@newsorpigal No, you're putting words in my mouth. At no point have advocated for lockdowns, curfews, or travel bans. You're like someone who sees a person saying "look both ways before crossing the street" and you annoyingly yell at them, "What do you expect us to do, never move from our spot on the sidewalk."
Show threadnewsorpigalJan 18, 2023
@augieray All I am saying is that there is legitimate criticism of many COVID restrictions that needs to be taken seriously (due to impact on society or effectiveness). This mockery of legitimate criticism is one of the reasons there are so many skeptics out there.
Show threadAugie RayJan 18, 2023

@newsorpigal Since literally NO ONE is suggesting curfews, lockdowns and the like, your strawman argument is painfully evident.

Me: "Look both ways before crossing the street."

You: "You're going to ruin lives."

Me: "No, what I'm advocating won't."

You: "But requiring people to stay home rather than cross streets would ruin lives. You're not taking me seriously."

I won't respond further. Do want you want. Risk your life and the lives of those you love. I can't stop it one way or another.

Show threadRichard WebbJan 17, 2023
@augieray
There was a similar degree of whining about seatbelts and drink driving
Show threadGamerTowerJan 17, 2023
@augieray People want smoking to be legal tho.
Show threadpetrosJan 17, 2023

@augieray Actually to a certain extend we do that.

We are aware that laws making things illegal do not work 100 per cent.

The instinct (still popular policy in a lot of places) tells people to lock up every criminal.

Reality: A lot of times it is better not to do so. Putting people into prisons is a great idea if you want reoffenders.

I still have pain from an accident. Bike riding, I was run over by a car, a SUV. She was perfectly safe thanks to 2 tons of metal.

Things aren't that simple.

Show threadLavender GoomsJan 17, 2023
@augieray "If you're so against drunk driving, then YOU don't have to drive drunk. It's my body, it's my car, I don't want government telling me what I can and can't do with it."
Show threadDale HagglundJan 18, 2023
@augieray I still hear "seatbelts can trap you" every now and then.