Sven Heise
Brent ToderianSee the real problem?
(Cartoon via #SchoenScheisse)
SellaTheChemist@BrentToderian Your acute sense of irony never ceases to delight me!
Lars
Brennan Stehling@Han_Dansken @BrentToderian Cities can make room for this now popular mode of transportation. A single parking space for a car can fit multiple bikes and scooters and reduce the number of cars on the road. Most cities are embracing this transition and hsve added much more bike lanes. It makes a car much less necessary for most residents.
@brennansv @BrentToderian There is just one vital error in that argument and that is that users of these scooters are not thinking like drivers, but like pedestrians. You can assign and plan for all the designated parking spaces in the world, they will never be used. This is also why some cities, like Copenhagen, have already banned rental scooters.
@Han_Dansken @BrentToderian Users of the rentals can be identified so if the don’t leave a scooter in a safe spot they could be penalized. I’d like each scooter to be numbered like taxis so pedestrians can take photos and report problems to the rental provider. Here in SF I often see scooters locked up at the bike racks. It’s convenient. We also have many more bike lanes now, so sidewalk riding is less common.
@brennansv @BrentToderian The solution Copenhagen came up with, was to make it illegal to drive a scooter without a bike helmet but with liability on the owner of the vehicle, not the user thus making it impossible on rental companies. Other European cities are trying a solution as you describe, but with little effect.
@Han_Dansken @BrentToderian Making it impossible blocks progress. Electric scooters reduce congestion and cut carbon emissions. It’s not that hard to bring a helmet though. People do it. Many have purchased their own scooters too. They should be handled the same as bikes.
@brennansv @BrentToderian There have been some discussion on how eco-friendly these rental scooters really are, seeing they have a huge battery and a short life expentancy. Combined with how they are being treated by users, they might not be as green, as say bikes. Privately owned scooters tend to be used more carefull by their owners, so no issues there.
@Han_Dansken @BrentToderian Compare to a gas burning car and I am sure the scooter is always more environmentally friendly.
Ward Alexander 
@tupperward @Han_Dansken @BrentToderian Cities dominated by privately owned cars is one status quo we need to break and great progress has been made. Better public transit, bike share networks and scooter rentals are a great alternative to cars. I have rarely driven a car the past several years. I get around easily.
Full Report Below@brennansv @Han_Dansken @BrentToderian Scooters are small enough to be moved by non-renters. My gripe is that cities prefer eScooters over rental bikes, which are even more eco friendly
Stahldame@Han_Dansken @brennansv @BrentToderian Put the scooters on a chain, just like shopping carts. Then you can define zones where a scooter only counts as "returned" if the chain is put into a lock.
@stahldame @Han_Dansken @BrentToderian Some rental services have riders take photos of the scooter once the ride is done. It includes the location, so that can help inform riders of proper parking. I’ve even seen one which defined parking zones either based on location or ranging to a Bluetooth device at the spot.
@stahldame @Han_Dansken @BrentToderian What rental providers should do is have a bounty for reporting unsafe conditions like riding on sidewalks or causing tripping hazards. Their apps should pay users to report these problems and fine the rider who is responsible. I’ve seen them left in the middle of sidewalks.
Simon Boyne@SimonB @Han_Dansken @brennansv @BrentToderian I did not expect this t obe a technical problem. It's political, 100%.
@stahldame @SimonB @Han_Dansken @BrentToderian And legislators really need to be better informed while scooter rental companies have to be more responsible and accountable. There is a way to make this work. Many cities are doing it. If it means some customers are banned for reckless behavior so be it. Let responsible riders use this service. Safe behavior can be normalized.
@Han_Dansken @brennansv @BrentToderian Dublin's dockless bike scheme requires the user to park them probably. If they don't they are fined and eventually banned from the system. Works well. People will take the laziest option if you allow them too
Franck Leroy@brennansv @Han_Dansken @BrentToderian That's what they should have done instead of allowing for bike and scooters renting companies that you can leave anywhere.
In paris, Velibs work with dedicated parking spaces.
In paris, Velibs work with dedicated parking spaces.
Petra Elliott@brennansv My work often requires me to drive to the city (I need to carry a lot of gear for the job) but then also occasionally jump on a scooter during my work for relocation. I like the ease of scooters, but not the possessiveness of cyclists in bike lanes. I’m off the footpath as I should be for pedestrian safety, but then cyclists don’t like anyone in their lane going slower than them. So much for solidarity in being an eco solution.
Jonny AxelssonObviously this model is broken. Interestingly, originally made for bicycles by enterprising Chinese inspired by Uber and the #SiliconValleyModel.
Putting rental bicycles back in a rack was friction, and friction is bad for #unconstrainedGrowth, and growth pumps up stock price.
In practice it led to bicycle mountains.
@Han_Dansken @BrentToderian Are cyclists, drivers or e-scooter users inherently messy? If incentivised that way.
If there was an e-scooter rental model for cars (pick your car up anywhere, drop it anywhere you like, company will handle the fines), it would be an absolute nightmare. Fortunately it would be destructive to the companies as well.
jfwerner@BrentToderian Bad take. Cars don't stand on the sidewalk (most of the time at least), blocking the path of pedestrians.
If scooters were in parking lots, nobody would give a fuck.
daBrian
Cifer@jfwerner @BrentToderian "Most of the time" is sadly an awfully vague category...
Just a few weeks ago, the Oberverwaltungsgericht of Bremen judged that the authorities were too lax in fining parking violations. The agencies involved said this was about roughly 20,000 vehicles.
Bremen: Wem gehört der Gehweg?| tagesthemen mittendrin
Jesse@jfwerner @BrentToderian it's a fine take. Scooter park in the way because there isn't space to park them without them being in the way and the lack of space is attributable to cars. There would be plenty of space to park scooters if we removed some car parking.
Sean Cutt@jfwerner @BrentToderian
Cars take up countless space for roads, parking, fueling up, (quite often) parking on sidewalks, leading to wider cities that require cars, car advocates denying other uses any other forms of transport. Scooters also just "occasionally" take space from pedestrians but they also free up a lot more space for other mods of transport other than cars, as long as we legislate more space for other forms.
Cars take up countless space for roads, parking, fueling up, (quite often) parking on sidewalks, leading to wider cities that require cars, car advocates denying other uses any other forms of transport. Scooters also just "occasionally" take space from pedestrians but they also free up a lot more space for other mods of transport other than cars, as long as we legislate more space for other forms.
@BrentToderian da muss ich doch gleich den @philomatic pingen - das Thema hatte dich doch auch mal beschäftigt. Du hast mich damals wirklich sensibilisiert.
PhilippGenau! Es ist ja nicht so, dass Scooter nie stören würden. Aber mir ging es um die Prioritäten der Verkehrswende.
Der Cartoon ist echt treffend
Onkel Hobstin 🏳️🌈@BrentToderian f***! How will owners get their cars off the middle row?? 😱
Strawanzen@BrentToderian shure seeing the problem: who the hell put all these buckets with plants on the parking lot?
@BrentToderian immerhin sind Gehwege nicht als Parkplätze konzipiert. Ärgert nicht nur blinde
Katrin Bretscher 💛💙@BrentToderian Yeah, people in wheelchairs can't move them aside when they're blocking the sidewalk.
smial@BrentToderian
Das Problem mit den Dingern ist, dass sie immer genau auf Geh- und Radwegen herumstehen und -liegen, nicht etwa in Parkbuchten oder auf Fahrbahnen.
Das Problem mit den Dingern ist, dass sie immer genau auf Geh- und Radwegen herumstehen und -liegen, nicht etwa in Parkbuchten oder auf Fahrbahnen.
Joe@BrentToderian No. I see two real problems.
vam103@BrentToderian
Yes, those darn flower beds and that there is no way to get out of the parking spaces.
Yes, those darn flower beds and that there is no way to get out of the parking spaces.
Simon@BrentToderian lets just get rid of both.
Andrew Eisenberg@BrentToderian I visited LA a couple of weeks ago and walked everywhere, probably over 20k/day. It was awesome. Such a fantastic city, but those scooters…everywhere. Some sidewalks were hard to walk on and some scooters had fallen partially into the road. A real hazard.
I like the idea of scooter sharing, but there has to be a better way.
@aeisenberg @BrentToderian I'm probably naive to other rental models, but one local to me geofences official parking zones. If you don't leave the scooter in one of these zones, you're credit card (which is required) is charged an additional fee. Seems to be working pretty well.
James S@BrentToderian I love public transit, bike paths, walkable cities, etc, but I really, really hate electric scooters. I’ve been hit by them on sidewalks, seen people get badly hurt on them, seen more bad behavior on them per capita than all other modes of transportation combined. Not to mention being left in doorways, sidewalks, and my personal favorite: bike paths. I had to move two of them in downtown Boise just today.
tonnerkillerPeople. The real problem are people.
Frotee@BrentToderian I mean yes, absolutely, but it is still a nuisance mostly to pedestrians, Bike-Riders and wheelchair users that the damn things keep standing right in the middle of our paths.
Dominik Bucheli@BrentToderian but the problem with escooters is, that they are claiming the little space left for pedestrians. It would be no problem, if they use some space from motorized vehicles.
Winfried Ebner@BrentToderian das ist doch was für @katja_diehl, oder? Guten Start ins neue Jahr 2023 👋
Greg Minshall@BrentToderian when we visited La Jolla (all San Diego?) we saw it has a nice scooter parking policy. basically, one (somewhat shortened) parking place in the street on corners, where scooters are to be parked. i assume this is enforced.
ashley@BrentToderian @KevinMarks yes, many parked cars are boxed in by other parked cars
@BrentToderian You should also show the bicyclists saying the same thing when they can't find parking because the e-scooters are blocking any and all spots
Hasko 🇪🇺🦄🌻@BrentToderian I hate them, but as a pedestrian.
Rueben@BrentToderian This literally happened when Lime Bikes were introduced to #NorthVancouver. A few people complained about the bikes being an eyesore when they were parked along streets.
BagheeraAltered 
@BrentToderian fuck cars