50 years ago, the harbor of New York City was a sewer, filled with human trash and pollutants
But congress passed the Clean Water Act and it helped enormously, so …
… today wildlife has staged a remarkable comeback, and the water quality is high. They’ve seen humpback whales in the Hudson River one mile from Times Square, and there’s a thousand breeding pairs of heron
Smart ecological legislation works
@clive I love this! much slower progress here in Baltimore / on the Chesapeake but progress is happening nonetheless. Check out Mr. Trash Wheel if you're not familiar...
It's great, eh?
I'll check out the Chesapeake stuff ... it'd be great to see more ecological revival there
@clive the big problem here as I understand it is ag runoff. NYState is lucky they don’t have that as much. But when you’re the watershed for the chicken producers for all of America… it’s a challenge.
That said, the EPA’s consent decree forced the city of baltimore to plug enough leaks that the river down the street from me is full of fish and other wildlife and it’s a delight
Yeah, I don't think runoff is as big an issue up here any more
That is great about the fish!
yep yep, I've read a little bit about the finger lakes
Yeah, good question -- what's the ratio of "getting it wrong" to "getting it right" with legislation?
Part of the problem is that in any society, there'll be disagreements -- some who think the legislation personally screwed them, others who are like no dude it helped many others
I doubt the companies who were saving a ton of money by dumping untreated waste into the river *liked* the Clean Water Act
It's good to reflect on the true crapshows of legislation that had terrible second-order effects -- like that dust bowl example
US legislation to mandate an ethanol percentage in gasoline has, as I've read, been pretty much a mess
Hasn't really reduced emissions significantly, and it incentivized farms to monocrop corn, corn, corn, corn
@clive Neighbourhood costs are I think always wrong, from an ethical point of view.
The question is whether legislature can deal with this, or the wide range of other ecological issues? and can it, upon recognizing an issue, produce legislation which actually has the intended effect?
Overall, are we better off with legislation, or worse off? more to the point, how can we even tell, given how complex the world is?
We need a mechanism which works overall and can be *proved* to be working.
@MarkBrigham @clive That last sentence is a bit "belling the cat". It's a great sentiment, but how?
I may be wrong, but to my eye there is an underlying ethical principle which cuts across the capitalism or regulation and so on.
Everything must be voluntary and well-informed, except in self-defence.
You cannot force others to do thing, nor can you trick or deceive them into acting, unless you must be act in self-defence, in which case all bets are off.
@MarkBrigham @clive Whenever we talk about the ills of anything - regulation, capitalism, let's say for contract communism, or racism, or what-have-you - although I may be wrong, to my eye, in the end, it all comes down to something being done which is either being forced on people, or people are being deceive into it.
Neighbour effects, which would here be pollutive industries, are an example. Companies dumping waste into river water are forcing their costs onto others, without their consent.
@MarkBrigham @clive The issue is one of freedom. I find if I ask people if they approve of freedom, they do, but if I ask what freedom is, they cannot say.
I may be wrong, but that ethic - everything must be voluntary and well-informed, except in self-defence - I think is the actual definition of freedom.
To the extent you must act because you are forced, or deceived, you are not free.
We’ve seen what happens when everything in the capitalist marketplace is voluntary: businesses monopolize & price gouge; abuse & endanger their underpaid (& unpaid) workers; and pollute like crazy.
Regulate away the worst abuses of capitalism (& enforce those regs) and big biz still finds a way to make trillions of dollars. They just do so without killing us.
@MarkBrigham @clive Speaking for myself, the only monopolies I have problems with are Governments, as I avoid other monopolies like the plague, but there are occasions when you cannot avoid Government.
Whenever I have to interact with them, to get something mandatory performed, it's hell on wheels. It can take *years* to get a simple task done.
Next worst are large monopolies (Microsoft, Google), then large normal companies (telcos), and after that life is pretty much okay.
@MarkBrigham @clive I would add also, to echo you first statement, we're seen what happens when Government are unfettered and do what they want to do - Russia, right now, death, rape, mutilation, murder, nuclear threats, devastation on the largest scale.
The cure appears to be more in need to regulation than the illness, much as both require solutions.
In fact, it gets back to freedom. All of this is objectionable, because it violates freedom. It is forced upon people, without their consent.
Absolutely!!
Totally
The bluefish are pretty amazing and *incredibly* inexpensive! I’ve had stuff at a restaurant that was caught on the line literally four hours before dinner
It’s a very strong-tasting and oily fish — needs to be prepared with that in mind
A good chef can work magic with it though
Cheaper fresh fish in NYC cannot be gotten
Oh wow, did not know this. I grew up there. Come to think of it, I DO remember seeing what looked like real human garbage in the river. How about the East River? How is that now?
I don't know specifically about the east river but I would imagine it's got to be somewhat better at least? That's all one connected body of water
Up in my hometown of Toronto, they've been dealing with zebra mussels for a long time -- yep they clean the water but clog everything else, and muck with the ecology of other lifeforms
Yep, I subscribe -- subscribers can share 12 friend links a month, so I find ones I think are particularly cool and put 'em up here!
Thank you! Great article!
Couple related things:
• There’ve been increasing sightings of dolphins around Staten Island too!
• The article didn’t go into it but the Million Oyster Project isn’t developing oyster beds purely for the love of oysters. It’s also because oysters filter all kinds of god-awful stuff out of the water.
• There’s a well-developed open-water swimming community in #NYC (CIBBOWS.org, NYOW, Coney Island Polar Bear Club, many others)
Dolphins!! That's cool -- had not heard that
Yep, I'd heard about the Million Oyster Project ... it's super cool. And yeah they are remarkable little beasts
So damn cool
ErinWeirdo
Clive Thompson
Christopher Mims
Steve Weaver
Max Ganz II 🇺🇦
Mark
Deb Chachra
ex or current IDF unwelcome
Magnus Hedemark
Walle
P.U.F.
Jan Bennett
Remguru
ChopinsHeart ⚛️ 
toxtethogrady
Litejedi
Grandpa Don
Harry Tuttle, heating engineer
CharJTF 
(she/her)
JohnW ⚓ 📸 ✊🏿
MollyNYC
JohnFisher
Erik Nordman