Ruven PomeranceDec 27, 2022
@hebrewbyinbal I'm sorry you have to see that. I guess those "warriors" feel they are helping Palestianians by taking 5 seconds to write something nasty. I think the beginning of the end for me on Twitter was when former Rep Gabby Giffords who nearly died in an assassination attempt achieved the incredible goal of becoming a Bat Mitzvah (given that she had suffered brain damage in the shooting). The comments were filled with so much hate.
Show threadJeremy (יעקב) 🇺🇦Dec 28, 2022

@pomerance @hebrewbyinbal

》Feel like they are helping #Palestinians
To be honest, I used to believe that too. But I have recently become despondent realizing it was the other way around. Because it made me realize fewer are interested in either harmed group.

Show threadRuven PomeranceDec 28, 2022
@imstilljeremy @hebrewbyinbal It’s possible that they are dedicated to their cause irl. But I’m sure they are just into finding any Jew and yelling at them.
Show threadsheepchaseDec 28, 2022

@pomerance @imstilljeremy @hebrewbyinbal I found David Hirsh’s book very eye opening on how ‘liberal’ (‘left’ in the UK) can be, in fact often are, really antisemitic.

I don’t agree with everything in the book but I recommend it as some thinking material.

https://www.routledge.com/Contemporary-Left-Antisemitism/Hirsh/p/book/9781138235311
#antisemitism

Contemporary Left Antisemitism

Today’s antisemitism is difficult to recognize because it does not come dressed in a Nazi uniform and it does not openly proclaim its hatred or fear of Jews. This book looks at the kind of antisemitism which is tolerated or which goes unacknowledged in apparently democratic spaces: trade unions, churches, left-wing and liberal politics, social gatherings of the chattering classes and the seminars and journals of radical intellectuals. It analyses how criticism of Israel can mushroom into antis

Routledge & CRC Press
Show threadRuven PomeranceDec 28, 2022
@sheepchase @hebrewbyinbal @imstilljeremy I will put it on my list. I agree. Advocating for Jews to leave the one country where they have self determination is the same as advocating for genocide.
Show threadRuven PomeranceDec 28, 2022
@sheepchase @hebrewbyinbal @imstilljeremy If you think of it “River to the Sea” means sending Jews where? To try to reclaim their homes in the countries they were expelled from? That sounds like sending people to sure extermination. “River to the Sea” is a disgusting slogan
Show threadRabbi Gabriel Kanter-WebberDec 28, 2022
@pomerance It doesn't *necessarily* mean sending Jews anywhere. Palestinians being free - the second half of the sentence - doesn't in any way depend on an absence of Jews.
Undoubtedly the chant is often used by antisemites (and its inverse is often used by anti-Palestinian racists) but I don't think labelling it in absolutes is either accurate or helpful.
Show threadSerge from BabkaDec 28, 2022

@rabbigabriel @pomerance

You are mistaken Rabbi.

https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/From-the-River-to-the-Sea
https://www.adl.org/resources/glossary-term/allegation-river-sea-palestine-will-be-free

It is directly a call for the destruction of Israel, and thus for the protections of the state of Israel on the Jews in the MENA. As the governments in the MENA have expelled their Jews, and Jews presence (like LGBTQ+ presence), there is no reason to believe that this call is anything but a call for Jewish death or expulsion, as has happened in the recent past.

“From the River to the Sea” | #TranslateHate

What does From the River to the Sea mean and why are anti-Israel protestors chanting From the River to the Sea, Palestine Will be Free? See how “From the River to the Sea” is antisemitic.

AJC
Show threadRabbi Gabriel Kanter-WebberDec 28, 2022
@serge @pomerance Respectfully, I don’t think you mean that I’m mistaken. I think you mean that you disagree.
The page you linked says that the chant is a call to “erase the State of Israel and its people”. My point is that that interpretation simply is not reflected by the language of the chant. That may be the intention underlying it, in many or even most cases, but that isn’t the same as concluding that it’s the actual meaning of the actual words.
Show threadKetzirah LesserDec 28, 2022

@rabbigabriel @serge @pomerance but the meaning of the words is their context. That’s what language is all about.

What I agree with is that some do not intend “death to jews” but it is clearly a call for the destruction of the state of Israel.

Show threadRabbi Gabriel Kanter-WebberDec 28, 2022
@devotaj @serge @pomerance Does freedom for Palestinians necessarily and intrinsically mean destruction of the State of Israel? I don’t think it does.
Show threadKetzirah LesserDec 28, 2022

@rabbigabriel @serge @pomerance I don’t think freedom for Palestinians has to mean destruction of Israel.

However this phrase does mean that, as it’s saying all the land from the river to the sea is for Palestinians, which contextually does exclude Jews.

And based on the built up anger, also implies it.

Not caring what happens to the Jews in this scenario is the same thing that happened to Palestinians in the creation of Israel — the Nabka.

Show threadRuven PomeranceDec 28, 2022
@devotaj @rabbigabriel @serge It doesn’t HAVE TO but it does.
Show threadኢራ עירא Ira عيرا 🍓🎗️Dec 30, 2022

@pomerance @devotaj @rabbigabriel @serge @hebrewbyinbal

You guys, there is now a big block of Kahanist boot lickers in the Israeli government, they are bent on harming occupied Palestinians, and they are planning on destroying the high court and corrupting the IDF to achieve their goal. Many of us in Israel are seeing this as an end of our democracy.

Criticism of a horrible regime is not antisemitism.

Show threadRuven PomeranceDec 30, 2022
@I @rabbigabriel @devotaj @hebrewbyinbal @serge no one is saying that it is. Some say that chant is.
Show threadኢራ עירא Ira عيرا 🍓🎗️Dec 30, 2022
@pomerance @rabbigabriel @devotaj @hebrewbyinbal @serge which one? This thread talked about many quotes.
Show threadRuven Pomerance
@rabbigabriel @devotaj @hebrewbyinbal @I @serge We’ve mostly been taking about this. Absolutely criticizing Israel is NOT antisemitic in and of itself. The post you were replying to had to do with this — and the fact that not caring what happens to Jews in the iteration following their definition of freedom is, in my opinion.
Dec 30, 2022 at 2:23pmWeb
Show threadኢራ עירא Ira عيرا 🍓🎗️Dec 30, 2022

@pomerance @rabbigabriel @devotaj @hebrewbyinbal @serge

That was not me, It was Inbal who called it antisemitism.

as for the "River to sea" quote, the same was and is used by right wingers in Israel, I think Geula Cohen and Refael Eitan were the first to make it mainstream in the 1980s, though the Hitnakhluyot were happening since the late 1960s and early 70s, exactly with that idea in mind...

Show threadኢራ עירא Ira عيرا 🍓🎗️Dec 30, 2022
@pomerance @rabbigabriel @devotaj @serge ah, I see Inbal has removed it and then blocked me. Just as well. I think that that retoric she is using is causing Israel way more harm than good. However now it doesn't matter any more. The new government will hammer the final nail in the coffin of the admiration Israel used to have in the world ;( this is the real tragedy.
Show threadRuven PomeranceDec 30, 2022
@I @devotaj @serge @rabbigabriel May their days be short, followed by reason, prudence, and dedication to equality.
Show threadRuven PomeranceDec 30, 2022
@hebrewbyinbal @serge @rabbigabriel @I @devotaj well you did say that criticism of a horrible regime is not antisemitism. I was just agreeing and saying that wasn’t what was being discussed.