woolieDec 27, 2022
@[email protected] @rachael @notjustbikes it should be an absolute limit or there is no reason to have a limit at all. Regardless, it’s academic. In 10 years in Oakland I have never seen a driver cited for excess speed or reckless driving, not even once.
Show threadocdtrekkieDec 27, 2022

@wooliex @[email protected] @rachael @notjustbikes So at-limit in Chicago will get you run down. You will cause an accident. Our legislators actually basically demanded they raise the speed limits, and the department of transportation refused.

So the result in and around Chicago is a posted speed limit of 55 MPH on the interstates, a safe travel speed of between 65 and 80 MPH, and a point where you'll get pulled over by a cop of roughly 90 MPH.

Show threadNorman Wilson
@ocdtrekkie @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes If any slower speed will get you run down, it means other motorists are following too closely, inattentive, or otherwise reckless. Sorry.
Dec 27, 2022 at 11:28pmWeb
Show threadocdtrekkieDec 27, 2022
@oclsc @wooliex @[email protected] @rachael @notjustbikes That is... completely wrong. If you are driving slower than the majority other traffic, *you* are the reckless driver.
Show threadDr. Chris Rackauckas Dec 27, 2022
@ocdtrekkie @oclsc @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes if cars are moving too fast to handle anything out of the norm, then the speed limit should be lower.
Show threadocdtrekkieDec 27, 2022
@chrisrackauckas @oclsc @wooliex @[email protected] @rachael @notjustbikes Lowering the speed limit will not cause cars to drive slower, as it so happens.
Show threadNorman WilsonDec 28, 2022
@ocdtrekkie @chrisrackauckas @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes True. Enforcement is needed to change bad habits, and creating an environment in which driving slower feels more right--narrower and fewer lanes, more turns--is important.
Show threadDr. Chris Rackauckas Dec 28, 2022
@oclsc @ocdtrekkie @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes and so we can take some of that room and make bike lanes. Sounds like a good win win!
Show threadocdtrekkieDec 28, 2022
@chrisrackauckas @oclsc @wooliex @[email protected] @rachael @notjustbikes THAT is a way to reduce effective vehicular speed, yes!
Show threadocdtrekkieDec 28, 2022
@oclsc @chrisrackauckas @wooliex @[email protected] @rachael @notjustbikes Enforcement is just cash flow: If people routinely drive "too fast" on a road, the road is at fault, not the drivers.
Show threadLeftyLabourTechTorontoDec 28, 2022
@ocdtrekkie @oclsc @chrisrackauckas @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes Agreed. Streets in urban areas need to be redesigned to encourage slower speeds. It isn't enough to just post lower speed limits.
Show threadmindstalkDec 28, 2022
@ocdtrekkie @chrisrackauckas @oclsc @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes As it happens, lowering speed limits does lower speeds driven. Not as much as we'd like, by itself, but there is an effect.
Show threadScott GrimmettDec 28, 2022
@chrisrackauckas @ocdtrekkie @oclsc @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes
This thread started out promising. Now it just deserves to die.
Show threadNorman WilsonDec 28, 2022
@chrisrackauckas @ocdtrekkie @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes There's more to it than that, though. Most people do what they can get away with unless there's a good chance cheating will lead to being caught and embarrassed. It's just a flaw in human software. We've built transportation infrastructure and economics on the assumption that people are, on average, more competent than is actually the case, and ignore all those killed and maimed as a result. There's no instant cure.
Show threadNorman WilsonDec 28, 2022
@ocdtrekkie @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes
I suggest you consult your local traffic laws. If I intentionally drive below a designated minimum speed, I may be committing an offense. If you drive so recklessly that you can't stop in time just because I'm slower than you, you ARE committing an offense. Following too closely is reckless by definition. Sorry.
Show threadocdtrekkieDec 28, 2022
@oclsc @wooliex @[email protected] @rachael @notjustbikes This isn't about traffic laws, it's about psychology and effective safety. Traffic laws are not necessarily correct for reducing danger to pedestrians, bicyclists, and other drivers.
Show threadNorman WilsonDec 28, 2022
@ocdtrekkie @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes But driving with due care attention very much is. Including not driving faster than will allow a safe stop within vision or the distance to the nearest obstacle, whichever is less.
Show threadocdtrekkieDec 28, 2022
@oclsc @wooliex @[email protected] @rachael @notjustbikes I mean, yes in theory, but it didn't take your profile description for you to out yourself as "not a driver with opinions on driving", lol.
Show threadNorman WilsonDec 28, 2022
@ocdtrekkie @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes Except that I have long been a driver, as defined by the Ontario HIghway Traffic Act: bicycles are legally vehicles and so a cyclist is a driver. Which means I'm legally required to stop at red lights, even when turning right, and at stop signs, though unlike the vast majority of motorists I actually do. (Or did; off the bike for some years thanks to spine problems.)
Show threaddr jamesbicycleDec 28, 2022

@oclsc
Truthy. Bicycles are defined as vehicles in std traffic safety acts in some circumstances & not in others. It's getting really interesting with power assisted & electrically assisted bikes, scooters, long boards.

Re bikes and stop signs- yes everyone complains when you don't, but just try stopping when, say 50 bicycles stop one after another at an all-way / 4-way stop sign intersection.
Changes in laws are slowly coming.

@ocdtrekkie @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes

Show threaddr jamesbicycleDec 28, 2022

@ocdtrekkie
This is true. Making driving feel uncomfortable at speeds above the desired speed is better. Even a single traffic cone on a lane line changes driver perception of safe travel speed.

@oclsc @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes

Show threadFrank VerhoevenDec 28, 2022
@ocdtrekkie @oclsc @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael @notjustbikes Imagine the discussions in traffic court.
Show threadMy name is Gloria ActuallyDec 28, 2022
@notjustbikes @ocdtrekkie @oclsc @wooliex @tlalexander @rachael sounds like your area needs better speed enforcement or the streets need to be restructured to reduce speed if not both. Driving the speed limit should be the default
Show threadSheean SpoelDec 28, 2022
@oclsc @rachael it’s mostly a symptom of rubbish driver ed. Take a look at highways here in NL or even better in Germany: slower traffic going 80 km/h or so. Fastest going as fast as they want. Not an issue if people plan and look ahead.
Show threadWynnofThuleDec 28, 2022
@oclsc @ocdtrekkie @wooliex @[email protected] @rachael @notjustbikes Speed limits shouldn't be enforced by simply draining the driver's wallets yet further. Automated speed traps are in many ways a band-aid for the gaping wound of bad road design. Or in other words, a skill issue. They should be a last resort, not a first line of defense.