Nino Kadic

I noticed that western Buddhists tend to be REALLY into it as a religion, often acting like proselytisers, while people who were raised Buddhist, like some of my friends from Asia, don't think too much about it, vaguely believe in it, and see it more as a general lifestyle.

I never talked to a western Buddhist who was casual about it haha. I just thought that was interesting.

#buddhism #religion

Dec 24, 2022 at 10:42amWeb
Show threadCJ Stevens - MetaphysiologyDec 24, 2022
@nino Western Buddhists who are chill about it may not feel the need to identify as the label 'Buddhist'.
Show threadNino KadicDec 24, 2022
@WorldImagining I guess so, but why not?
Show threadCJ Stevens - MetaphysiologyDec 24, 2022
@nino Because there is no need to and because people may presume, upon hearing a western person identify as Buddhist, that this implies X, Y, and Z, whereas it can be more of a mood or tone or nuance or attitude to everyday life, as you say is the case with many raised in it.
Show threadNino KadicDec 24, 2022
@WorldImagining Fair enough, I suppose. It often implies that the person likes crystals and expensive meditation courses :D
Show threadCJ Stevens - MetaphysiologyDec 24, 2022
@nino Exactly haha. And who, having internalized the spirit of Buddhism, wants to be associated with that?? 🙂
Show threadNino KadicDec 24, 2022
@WorldImagining Good point!
Show threadBorjan (Boki) MilinkovićDec 24, 2022
@nino I would say this applies to all later-life conversions of belief. I’ve noticed this pattern in many domains.
Show threadNino KadicDec 24, 2022
@MilinkovicBoki Very true
Show threadMatthew Martin Ⓥ ☸Dec 24, 2022

@nino This is a well known phenomena. I think in a population maybe ~5% take religion seriously and the rest don't. seriously== they're ideologues, they care about efficacy & are the element true. this compares to people who like to go to church because of cookies after service & that is where the people are & service is boring stuff mixed with fun singing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeal_of_the_convert

Zeal of the convert - Wikipedia

Show threadBhante Subharo ☸Dec 25, 2022

@nino What a great thread this is. Your comments are all interesting.

I am just such a Western #Buddhist monastic, who's zeal has cooled off to the point where I can't dig - No Diggity - the attitude of the more zealous, shockingly conservative fundamentalist Western Buddhists I know.

I did a #Dhamma Talk recently along these lines (East meets West; "tight culture" meets "loose culture"):

"Blessings of Modernity, and the Impact of Science on Buddhism":
https://bhikkhu.ca/buddhism/video/2022/12/05/Dhamma_Talk_097.html

Dhamma Talk Video 97: Blessings of Modernity, and the Impact of Science on Buddhism

Here’s an 58-min recorded video Dhamma Talk (275MB .mp4).

Ajahn Subharo
Show threadBhante Subharo ☸Dec 25, 2022
@nino Also relevant in this conversation. Recent infographic about the rate of decline in youths seen in many Religions in Canada. Seen in "infographics" Sub-Reddit. I would attribute this loss to "tight" and "loose" culture not combining very well. The Buddhist lineages of the East, being "tight", need to save face at all costs, period. This is uninspiring in a loose culture like Canada - no such need for tight clan-loyalty; devotedly trusting tough, authoritarian-style leaders.
Show threadLuke AlexanderDec 25, 2022
@sbb @nino but a Western style Buddhism has adapted- see the work of Charlotte Joko Beck and the Ordinary Mind school
Show threadBhante Subharo ☸Dec 25, 2022
@lalexander @nino I think it's possible for existing lineages to take stock of their current customs and traditions, discerning which ones they do because the Buddha specifically said to do it somewhere in the Early Buddhist Texts - there being some convincing, non-oblique precedent cited. This is in contrast to that which is done as per the "playbook" that any "tight" culture would have a clan do, for its own competitive advantage against other threatening clans.
Show threadNino KadicDec 25, 2022
@sbb @lalexander Thank you very much for your comments, they're quite insightful!
Show threadLuke AlexanderDec 25, 2022
@nino I'm a Western Buddhist and I'm way more into it than my Korean partner's nominally Buddhist family. They would never actually meditate, go on retreats, etc. tbh though Korean Christians seem way more into it than manywestern Christians though
Show threadReadingFaithfully.org☸📗Dec 25, 2022

@nino There is a lot of selection bias in what you are talking about. I don't think it's good to draw general conclusions based on the limited number of people we come in contact with.

Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that many people from Buddhist countries don't think that westerners *in general* are capable of understanding and practicing Buddhism. Of course that's not true. But you really can't fault them for thinking that.

Show threadJon H 🏳️‍🌈Dec 25, 2022
@nino What a fantastic thread! I was about to toot that I’m a western late “convert” who is chill about it (still true) but now following up all the articles and thoughts e.g. on Burma and Asian ex-Buddhists, and the western bhikkhus. So much nuance. Thank you for proposing the question 💜
Show threadbodhidaveDec 28, 2022

@nino

1|2

I very much sense there are a number of levels and facets, including for instance WC Smith's distinction between dogmatic "belief" and mind-opening "faith." The West's presumptive imposition of a metaphysical and credal template when constructing religious "-isms" in other cultural traditions, and the whole difference between dogmatic ideas versus deconstructive practices (looking at how we look at things) is also pertinent.

However :) ...

Show threadbodhidaveDec 28, 2022

@nino

2|2

Your note reminds me of the anecdote about the opening day at a new Buddhist center in Los Angeles and the moment when a group of Anglo-American participants who are sitting on cushions getting ready to meditate exchange looks with a group of Asian-Americans who are on the other side of the room putting flowers on the altar and sharing food recipes with each another.
🙂 🙏

Show threadNino KadicDec 28, 2022
@bodhidave That sounds really nice. I'm happy to hear it's much nicer IRL than online!
Show threadbodhidaveDec 28, 2022

@nino

I'm also reminded of the interplay these days between the Buddhist-derived Western approaches to "mindfulness" and Old School Buddhist *sati* practices.

Julia Cassaniti's *Remembering the Present: Mindfulness in Buddhist Asia* includes an anecdote of a nurse in South East Asia instructing patients in Western-style mindfulness techniques ... and then kind of adding in some indigenous perspectives on spirit energies and such. :)