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God 
This is what fascist propaganda looks like.
sandywb14@godpod He represents the very worst of deplorables.
RD Hall
Vicki Kyriakakis@godpod What. In the heck. Is this guy smoking?
Zelensky LITERALLY in his speech just talked about Christmas.
Tucker sure is keen to prove definitively that he's a RUSSIAN asset.
Nona Rose@VickiKyriakakis @godpod you assume anyone who watches tucker is actually going to watch Zelenskyās speech?
@nona80_swanette @godpod No. Just stunned at the level of dishonesty and bile and lying. I donāt have words for these people anymore.
Kim Spence-Jones #FBPE@VickiKyriakakis @nona80_swanette @godpod
This is why I think the most important reform we need ā even above PR ā is a law criminalising ādeliberately or recklessly misleading the publicā. I include āRecklesslyā, because āI didnāt knowā¦ā should not be a defence for the bullshitters, if the truth is easily ascertained.
If voters are not told the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, their votes mean nothing. When politicians (and the media) get away with lying, democracy is dead.
@KimSJ @VickiKyriakakis @godpod not just in the US, there are quite a few countries who could do with this sort of legislation, though the US seems to be leading the reporting idiocy stakes at the moment.
@nona80_swanette Exactly. Iām in UK, and we certainly need a law against bullshit! The problem is, reality has a left-wing bias (according to where politics seems to be at the moment). The Right can only make its case by lying. Unfortunately, to those not paying close attention the attractive lies resonate more than unpalatable truths.
Jordan@KimSJ @nona80_swanette I've heard a few times that wherever the US goes the UK follows. It definitely seems to be the case in terms of our media.
@jordane121 @KimSJ Iām in Australia and weāre definitely not immune.
Dan Miller VFX@jordane121 @KimSJ @nona80_swanette
Rupert Murdoch is the common link.
@danmillervfx @jordane121 @KimSJ yes, and the stripping away of media ownership laws which at least helped a little in curtailing his stranglehold.
Andrew D.@KimSJ @nona80_swanette remember the McLibel case? Trump himself was eager for the chance to sue people who said things about himānot for truth, but to crush them.
@andrewd Iād prefer it to be criminal not civil law. Itās wrong that itās left to private money to defend the truth.
@KimSJ as weāve seen though, criminal law can be highly political. Look at the history of the US Sedition Act, McCarthyism etc. I donāt disagree that the problem is difficult. I just distrust the āwatchers.ā Yet Iām thrilled with the Alex Jones verdicts.
Itās a novel time we have now that everyone has a potentially worldwide soapbox. Who knows how it will play out, and the safeties needed.
Last, to heck with Tucker Carlson. Letās end the Fox News subsidies and him along with them.
Itās a novel time we have now that everyone has a potentially worldwide soapbox. Who knows how it will play out, and the safeties needed.
Last, to heck with Tucker Carlson. Letās end the Fox News subsidies and him along with them.
@andrewd Agreed, itās an incredibly hard thing to get the balance right, but my instinct is that weāve lost the plot. Imagine how many lives would have been (and will be) saved if Covid disinformation had been suppressed! Of if the Russian apologists were not weakening the resolve of the West to face an outrageous aggressor.
@KimSJ @nona80_swanette not surprising considering those unpalatable truths mean they were wrong the whole time. Weāve seen throughout history the lengths the guilty will go to avoid addressing their wrongs.
Thomas Larsen@KimSJ @nona80_swanette saying reality has a left wing bias depends on your frame of reference. Given the idea of left and right is a human construct the centre is somewhat arbitrary.
If we agree that reality is ārealā (i.e. what the truth is) then framing that in a left/right dichotomy doesnāt make any sense.
If we agree that reality is ārealā (i.e. what the truth is) then framing that in a left/right dichotomy doesnāt make any sense.
Gabriel@KimSJ @VickiKyriakakis @nona80_swanette @godpod thats a slippery slopeā¦ What if the regulators resulting from this law are corrupted by partisanship? If something we learn from the last few years is that ātruth is not truthā is a valid argument for many
@gabotuit If the courts can no longer be trusted to determine truth, then we are in a really dark place! The US is dangerously close to that point, with judges like Cannon and Thomas. Fortunately, the judiciary in UK has always been less politically influenced.
iluXan š¤£@gabotuit @KimSJ I used to think hate speech and outright lies have to be banned and stopped. Iām just a guy off the internet, but there are very good examples why that can really turn bad
This article makes a strong argument - https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/09/28/why-we-must-still-defend-free-speech/ - every kind of speech can be deemed āhateā against someone, even if the original laws are intended to protect it. Have been expanding my perspective slowly
Why We Must Still Defend Free Speech | David Cole
Many have asked why the ACLU represented Jason Kessler, the organizer of the white supremacist rally, in challenging Charlottesvilleās last-minute effort to revoke his permit. The city proposed to move his rally a mile from its originally approved siteāEmancipation Park, the location of the Robert E. Lee monument whose removal Kessler sought to protestābut offered no reason why the protest would be any easier to manage a mile away. As ACLU offices across the country have done for thousands of marchers for almost a century, the ACLU of Virginia gave Kessler legal help to preserve his permit. Should the fatal violence that followed prompt recalibration of the scope of free speech?
@iluxan I think thatās bullshit. The āaverage manā knows when stuff is hate speech. Pretending that we canāt distinguish good from bad is what has got us into this mess. The ultimate āboth sides ismā
@KimSJ I completely agree with you that the average man within their particular social niche definitely knows. The thing is that defining it in law in such a way that I canāt be turned against the minority groups itās intended to protect is apparently hard (apparently, as Iām learning, I checked some but not all references). Plus the govt that enforcer it can become very ideological
Consider skimming https://www.davisvanguard.org/2017/08/must-defend-free-speech/ and try the Hate book by Nadine Strossen
From the book: āDuring the 1830s, many Southern states enacted laws suppressing abolitionist speech, which was feared to spur violenceāin particular, slave rebellionsā
āāIn the UK, āhate speechā has come to include . . . virulent criticism of UK soldiers fighting in war,ā citing a 2012 case of a Muslim British teenager, Azhar Ahmed, who was arrested for his strongly worded Facebook post deploring British soldiersā killing of Afghan civilians.ā
@iluxan I donāt recall that case. Do you have context? Could it be that the post suggested that there was a policy of killing civilians?
@iluxan I see the danger, but tolerating intolerance is also very dangerous.
@KimSJ yeah. I donāt know. Thatās where I started too, still thinking
@iluxan I find debating the subject does help.
@KimSJ thatās what I did with a couple of friends recently live, and also why I posted here. I donāt really write/talk much, mostly consume. So when my friend pushed me I didnāt really have everything as solid as I thought
The thing is, I get thereās a huge disbalance - the people running major networks should be accountable for not just outright lying. But my friend, as well as this book, make a very strong case against banning people because there isnāt a clear line
@InfamousUnkown Iām not suggesting a law against hate speech, Iām asking for a law against stating āalternativeā facts. Much easier to police. Even Trump-appointed judges will stop short of declaring up is down or black is white!
@trae Yeah, actually so do I, but weāve got off down a sidetrack. If you read back the thread, what Iām advocating is a law not against hate speech, but against āmisleading the publicā ā lies, and irresponsible bullshit. That would have some effect on hate speech, but it would have a far bigger effect on preserving democracy (and public health, as a bonus). Itās a lot easier for courts to adjudicate on, too.
@KimSJ @trae youāre right. I didnāt reply because I meant (and started) to try to find some reading on trying to find some past attempts at this and how it worked. I didnāt get far yet, been low energy lately. I imagine it could also be hard to define, but hoping Iām wrong. I mean, there are laws against medical malpractice, and those are probably quite broad too
Louis Ingenthron@KimSJ @VickiKyriakakis @nona80_swanette @godpod
Hard disagree. You'd think such a law would be used against Carlson, but if history has shown us anything, it would instead be weaponized against BLM leaders and the like instead.
Fascists try to use the force of government to shut down speech. Please don't give them shiny new toys because you're scared of fascism.
The best answer to bad speech is more good speech.
Willard@KimSJ @VickiKyriakakis @nona80_swanette @godpod It was Reagan who killed the Fairness Doctrine... truth in broadcasting, that make FOX "News" possible.
@Goby Government by bullshit and lies has been a long time in the making. If only the Left took such long views!
@KimSJ the real Left takes much much longer views.
Joachim Frank@Goby @KimSJ @VickiKyriakakis @nona80_swanette @godpod
Many of our present problems go right back to this actor and fake politician. I could not stand it when he opened his mouth and nothing but insincerity came out of it
Many of our present problems go right back to this actor and fake politician. I could not stand it when he opened his mouth and nothing but insincerity came out of it
Komz hate fascists@VickiKyriakakis @nona80_swanette @godpod the level of dishonesty & bile & lying is what the lemmings crave to stay in the MAGAland bubble of willful ignorance. And why he has top ratings. Cultists always tune in
rthonpm@nona80_swanette @VickiKyriakakis @godpod That's the point. These people are taking his twisted interpretation as actual coverage of what transpired.
Angry* Atheist Truck Driver@VickiKyriakakis @godpod he took the time, and interrupted the applause, specifically to say āGod Bless The USAā and āGod Bless Ukraineā so I donāt know how that qualifies as war on Christianity. Me, on the other handā¦..I am actively waging war on all wishful thinking ridiculous hypothesesā¦Including Christianity. But Iām nobody.
b9n10nt
la_panique@AngryAtheistTruckDriver @VickiKyriakakis @godpod The elephant in the room being that Zelenskyy is Jewish. That sure seems like the subtext to me.
Stone Bear 
@VickiKyriakakis @godpod I was wondering exactly that. Somebody needs to check their frop stash for ergot poisoning, because clearly they are not right between the headsets...
saul b 
š”@VickiKyriakakis @godpod eh, I highly doubt heās on Russiaās payroll. The truth is even worse: this is just what conservatives believe.
Sunny Willow šDidn't I hear him say "God bless America" near the end of his speech?
naomid@godpod Another blood libel?
AnAffordableWizard
Eeeee Woooo@shayneoneill @naomid @godpod I think thereās not enough emphasis on the weird role the Russian Orthodox Church (or a bastardization thereof) is playing in the (manipulated) motivations for expanding Russian territory. Or the connection a bunch of āidiot white Americansā have created with that Church. Itās some evil shit. #Russia https://www.npr.org/2022/05/10/1096741988/orthodox-christian-churches-are-drawing-in-far-right-american-converts https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/19/patriarch-kirill-orthodox-church-russia-ukraine/ and highly recommend this documentary https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fQgiDKGHnr0
@EeeeWooo @shayneoneill @godpod thanks will add to my list of things to do! Iām sure this is a subject I need to know more about as I admit I have never thought much about it.
I think with all these things, it does behoove us to go easy easy with peoples religions. Most Orthodox folk are lovely. Just catholics with different hats really (now THATS a fascinating history). But what it DOES mean imho is we ought stand with orthodox christians who want fash and ultranationalists out of their church , which seems to be a hard uphill battle if the patriachs of the church are either complicit (in the case of Russia) or refuse to act (outside) , keeping in mind the understandable aversion to public scrutiny immigrant communities often have.
ATellurian@godpod He's just copy and pasting the hate greatest hits.
That Exhausted Chick
Rob@godpod Everyone should declare war on White Nationalism disguised as Christianity.
Atlantia