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Sharon GelmanWe’re not against Christians, we're against Christian Nationalism. We're not fighting men, we’re fighting patriarchy. The target is not white people, it's white supremacy. We don't oppose heterosexuals, just homophobia. Join the work dismantling oppressive systems.
Bellison22@sharongelman 👍💙🎯👍💙🎯
OSCrane@sharongelman Very much this. We can oppose institutions without othering the people within them that do not actively perpetuate the same evil they benefit from.
Surprised Owl@sharongelman as a Non-American I will do as much as I can to push back against this US Imperialism that gets imported into Australia 😡
@surprisedowl America certainly has a lot to answer for, but Australia also has America certainly has a lot to answer for, but all these kinds of oppression are not unique to the US nor did they begin here. Australia, like too many countries, has iits own independent history of terrible exploitation of Aboriginal / Indigenous people, of sexism and racism and antisemitism and homophobia. These are global problems.
@sharongelman I thought this was about American Christian nationalism, being promoted and that is being exported to my country. Yes, the USA is very much sn Imperial aggressor towards us, and imports this US cultural invention. Ever heard of Hillsong Church? It was just another church until US Christian Nationalists types taught them what to do.
Are you seriously getting defensive over this? 330 mill population country against our tony 25 mill nation. Were you not aware of US Imperialism?
Are you seriously getting defensive over this? 330 mill population country against our tony 25 mill nation. Were you not aware of US Imperialism?
@surprisedowl I opened by saying America has a lot to answer for. Not challenging that. But Additionally Australia and most countries also have their homegrown forms of bigotry and exploitation. These are global problems.
@sharongelman and the USA are the main culprit for exporting this. Why the heck do I have a Trump loving QAnon neighbour who hates Fauci?? I live in Australia! My Gods, all I ask is that you acknowledge American imperialism. The idea that your Nationalism stays in your borders Is farcical.
I have people wanting to kill my state’s premier, protesting holding American flags & Trump flags.
I’d love it, if it was only our local issues to deal with!
I have people wanting to kill my state’s premier, protesting holding American flags & Trump flags.
I’d love it, if it was only our local issues to deal with!
@surprisedowl I'm not denying any of that. It's beyond terrible. (FYI The likely founder of QANON seems to be a South African white supremacist who found willing cult members in America. Hate tragically crosses borders way too easily) Yet that's not all my post was about. Can't you also acknowledge that Australia has it's own history of exploitation that also needs to be addressed?
Locksmith@sharongelman @surprisedowl Gotta be careful with this "US Imperialism" path. It is very convenient to assign blame to anyone but ourselves. Australia is a free country. If it is choosing to follow the worst another country exports, who is it to blame?
NatSec MTB & Beer@surprisedowl @sharongelman
What you are highlighting here is a problem, but it is not US imperialism. It's a characteristic of globalisation where ideas (people and capital) travel freely across borders and distance.
The fact that many in Australia are buying into some RW stupidity these days is not on account of "America", it's on account of us having people who are RWNJs and vulnerable to disinformation. That's on us.
@NatSec_MTB_Beer @surprisedowl Agree. Of course that does not mean US imperialism has not done real damage in the world. It's just not the point I was making.
@sharongelman @surprisedowl
100%
No nation on this planet is free of guilt. America also does a huge amount of good in the world. Australia has done, and will continue to take regrettable actions, but few in our region would prefer us to disappear, which is good given that I prefer existence to oblivion!! :)
@NatSec_MTB_Beer @surprisedowl plus you have koala bears to protect. What would the world even be without koalas??
The Owl is not representative of the general (or even fringe) Australia on this issue. Most Australians are very aware of our less than enviable history and current problems of our society. We are generally proud of our nation but most of us understand our history and wish to continuously improve ourselves where we can.
I too cosign your original post in this thread and neither do I see these problems as peculiar of any nation or society on this earth.
kbkorbWhat's worse, American oppression or Australian oppression? That seems like a pointless debate to me.
Imperialism, on the other hand, is magnified by the US's wealth and aggressiveness. Australia's imperialism is only felt by a few weaker neighbors.
Both countries have shit histories. We should try to get over them.
Australia needs reconciliation and reparations on the way to equal opportunity. Now.
@kbkorb @surprisedowl yes! The target is not Americans or Australians or Germans or the British or South Africans. It's nationalism and institutionalized racism and iimperialism and antisemitism and every other form of oppression, abuse and exploitation
@sharongelman @kbkorb the idea that we have to balance out any discussion on US Christian Nationalism & its corresponding imperialism with a discussion on victim nation’s track record is really offensive.
I thought I was standing in solidarity with opposing this stuff, but it seems it has to be balanced with blaming the victims.
I’m not holding you as an individual responsible for this stuff, if I decide to criticise US Christian Nationalism and its associated affects.
I routinely tell the QAnon people: Hey, you are using US political talking points here.
US Imperialism is based on its economic power and forced neo-liberalism. YouTube videos, cinema etc are all tools to spread this imperialism.
Oh we will fight it, without yout help. That’s all we can do.
I don’t care to talk about this further. What a shame.
I thought I was standing in solidarity with opposing this stuff, but it seems it has to be balanced with blaming the victims.
I’m not holding you as an individual responsible for this stuff, if I decide to criticise US Christian Nationalism and its associated affects.
I routinely tell the QAnon people: Hey, you are using US political talking points here.
US Imperialism is based on its economic power and forced neo-liberalism. YouTube videos, cinema etc are all tools to spread this imperialism.
Oh we will fight it, without yout help. That’s all we can do.
I don’t care to talk about this further. What a shame.
Neil Cameron@surprisedowl @sharongelman @kbkorb Well said @surprisedowl We're both perfectly aware of Australia's incipient problems, but that wasn't the subject of the original toot. Or at least neither you nor I thought it was until you dared to complain about the ongoing export of 'Murikan christian nationalism.
Suddenly, we're no longer allowed to note how bad that export situation is nor how negatively it can affect another country. We're not allowed to note Australian MAGAts quoting the US Constitution in uniquely Australian situations, but have to state how bad & naughty Oz is. W...T....F?!
@Option1 @sharongelman @kbkorb thanks Neil. You get it. I value the US/Australian alliance, but the cultural and political imperialism is overwhelming. It has been for decades. At least Sky News hasn’t been able to import the war on Christmas nonsense. Merry Christmas & happy Holidays to all.
Yosa Beam ✅🌈🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️@sharongelman All of this.
Ken Camper@sharongelman Well said!
Shadowy Cabal Enthusiast@sharongelman Perfect framing. And none of this is a zero-sum game. Acknowledging and respecting the existence of other takes NOTHING away from you.
@Thunderbuck you are absolutely right.
It's Just Jenn 🏳️⚧️@sharongelman You know, I look at my white male privilege, and I'm like, yeah it's done me a lot of good. Why can't everybody have that?
@Tweetfiction I hear you and feel the same way about the privileges I benefit from too.
@sharongelman I think the oligarchs and religious fanatics that run the country/world give us those advantages but try to convince us that there's not enough prosperity and rights for everyone so we should help keep the rest down. But of course the only reason that's true is because those same oligarchs and fanatics take almost everything for themselves.
Mabb@sharongelman exactly!!!!
Ted Tschopp@sharongelman Thanks for saying this. It needs to be said more often. I generally don’t like ringing the bell you rang as a white hetro male Christian, but it’s good to hear someone else ring it. And I agree with you 100%.
jimbodon@sharongelman well said.
@jbonewald thank you.
jprestonian@sharongelman Very well said.
pokysharpy@sharongelman @smitty I wish there was a bumper, a t-shirt, or a flag big enough to broadcast this EXACT framing to the folks that need to understand it.
SmittyHalibut@sharongelman @pokysharpy hmm. Tshirt. Not a bad idea. :-)
SocialistStan@sharongelman Well I'm against Christianity 🤷♂️ and other religions.
LittleGoatGirl@SocialistStan are you saying you dont think its okay for folks to have any religion or are you against the organizing factors or religions? or rich churches? or what? Your statement is pretty broad. Which other religions? curious about it when people say these broad statements.
@aliza Against religion as a concept, there are enough avenues of irrationality in the world without adding more on purpose. If someone wants to be religious, then that's their choice, but it's a form of intellectual self-harm.
✊🏾WiseGuyEddie
Morrigan@sharongelman Well said. Agree 💯
Chel@sharongelman Isn't it just sad that so many people need this shit explicitly spelled out for them? 
⁂ Fish Id Wardrobe
+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄@sharongelman i'm not against the goals, i'm against the things done to reach those. why do all the things done lower standards accross the spectrum? everything done by "progressives" is spiraling downwards.
if you really wanted to fight oppression you'd push for abandoning the government. as it stands you are weaponizing the government just like the "other side" is and want even more governmental powers
Gabriel@bonifartius I have no faith that people like them have the values they claim to. I watched for years as people who claimed to champion for equality abandoned medical ethics when whipped up into a fevor, and there have been hardly any acknowledgements of it.
We’re not against Christians, we're against Christian...Yeah, just like how:* They weaponized taking away workers livelihoods to enforce compliance.* It's not censorship if it's not the government, okay it is the government but censorship is good now.I'm all for people getting along. I'm all for equal opportunities, even recognizing that there's a long way to go in terms of social safety nets. I will never take these people at their words that they don't mean any harm. Their actions have already shown at minimum indifference to even those they claim to stand up for.
Social justice is the biggest scam in the world. Privileged wealthy westerners advance divisive and destructive policies in the name of those they claim to advocate for. We have seen the successive power-grabs, ramping up of information control, and abuse that has been perpetrated by their ilk.
It will not end well. I wish people could work to authentically bring people together instead of merely laundering their class guilt into faux-empathy.
espinafrando@sharongelman @awgonnerman we’re not against capitalism… oh, wait! That we are against 🙂
CherieAnne@sharongelman Me, too!
John Chapman@sharongelman I'm not against Christians or any other religion. I AM strongly against their faith though. Faith isn't a desirable quality, it's the cause of most of the world's suffering. #FaithIsEvil
@jaydax you are free to think that. You’re just not free to decide that for other people.
Ivy is Skeptical@sharongelman Sixty pages into Merlin Stone’s, When God Was A Woman. Very interesting!
@Rubidoux68 have not read it yet.
Markus Gaines@sharongelman absofuckinglutely this!
Montana Magpie@sharongelman — You know, Paul said much the same thing in a more general way in Ephesians 6:12: Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities (or, you might say, against passions and fixed ways of thinking). And he went on to describe the proper weapons to be used in such a struggle — not one of which is hurtful.
I like how you have updated and focused the meme. Brava!
@MontanaMagpie thank you!
G. Scott@sharongelman
"christian fundamentalism" is the heart of evil.
"christian fundamentalism" is the heart of evil.
Robert DeWolfe 🌹@sharongelman And dangerously walking another fine line, there is a difference between being Jewish and Israeli apartheid.
@TheWolfe @TheWolfe In keeping with the original post, I might put it this way: We are fighting the occupation by the Israeli government, not Israel’s existence or Jews throughout the world. And I’d add for balance: we are fighting Islamic extremism, not Muslims throughout the world.
@sharongelman @TheWolfe Though as long as Israel exists they will be occupying Palestine.