Sharon GelmanWe’re not against Christians, we're against Christian Nationalism. We're not fighting men, we’re fighting patriarchy. The target is not white people, it's white supremacy. We don't oppose heterosexuals, just homophobia. Join the work dismantling oppressive systems.
Surprised Owl@sharongelman as a Non-American I will do as much as I can to push back against this US Imperialism that gets imported into Australia 😡
@surprisedowl America certainly has a lot to answer for, but Australia also has America certainly has a lot to answer for, but all these kinds of oppression are not unique to the US nor did they begin here. Australia, like too many countries, has iits own independent history of terrible exploitation of Aboriginal / Indigenous people, of sexism and racism and antisemitism and homophobia. These are global problems.
@sharongelman I thought this was about American Christian nationalism, being promoted and that is being exported to my country. Yes, the USA is very much sn Imperial aggressor towards us, and imports this US cultural invention. Ever heard of Hillsong Church? It was just another church until US Christian Nationalists types taught them what to do.
Are you seriously getting defensive over this? 330 mill population country against our tony 25 mill nation. Were you not aware of US Imperialism?
Are you seriously getting defensive over this? 330 mill population country against our tony 25 mill nation. Were you not aware of US Imperialism?
@surprisedowl I opened by saying America has a lot to answer for. Not challenging that. But Additionally Australia and most countries also have their homegrown forms of bigotry and exploitation. These are global problems.
@sharongelman and the USA are the main culprit for exporting this. Why the heck do I have a Trump loving QAnon neighbour who hates Fauci?? I live in Australia! My Gods, all I ask is that you acknowledge American imperialism. The idea that your Nationalism stays in your borders Is farcical.
I have people wanting to kill my state’s premier, protesting holding American flags & Trump flags.
I’d love it, if it was only our local issues to deal with!
I have people wanting to kill my state’s premier, protesting holding American flags & Trump flags.
I’d love it, if it was only our local issues to deal with!
@surprisedowl I'm not denying any of that. It's beyond terrible. (FYI The likely founder of QANON seems to be a South African white supremacist who found willing cult members in America. Hate tragically crosses borders way too easily) Yet that's not all my post was about. Can't you also acknowledge that Australia has it's own history of exploitation that also needs to be addressed?
Locksmith@sharongelman @surprisedowl Gotta be careful with this "US Imperialism" path. It is very convenient to assign blame to anyone but ourselves. Australia is a free country. If it is choosing to follow the worst another country exports, who is it to blame?
NatSec MTB & Beer@surprisedowl @sharongelman
What you are highlighting here is a problem, but it is not US imperialism. It's a characteristic of globalisation where ideas (people and capital) travel freely across borders and distance.
The fact that many in Australia are buying into some RW stupidity these days is not on account of "America", it's on account of us having people who are RWNJs and vulnerable to disinformation. That's on us.
@NatSec_MTB_Beer @surprisedowl Agree. Of course that does not mean US imperialism has not done real damage in the world. It's just not the point I was making.
@sharongelman @surprisedowl
100%
No nation on this planet is free of guilt. America also does a huge amount of good in the world. Australia has done, and will continue to take regrettable actions, but few in our region would prefer us to disappear, which is good given that I prefer existence to oblivion!! :)
@NatSec_MTB_Beer @surprisedowl plus you have koala bears to protect. What would the world even be without koalas??
The Owl is not representative of the general (or even fringe) Australia on this issue. Most Australians are very aware of our less than enviable history and current problems of our society. We are generally proud of our nation but most of us understand our history and wish to continuously improve ourselves where we can.
I too cosign your original post in this thread and neither do I see these problems as peculiar of any nation or society on this earth.
kbkorbWhat's worse, American oppression or Australian oppression? That seems like a pointless debate to me.
Imperialism, on the other hand, is magnified by the US's wealth and aggressiveness. Australia's imperialism is only felt by a few weaker neighbors.
Both countries have shit histories. We should try to get over them.
Australia needs reconciliation and reparations on the way to equal opportunity. Now.
@kbkorb @surprisedowl yes! The target is not Americans or Australians or Germans or the British or South Africans. It's nationalism and institutionalized racism and iimperialism and antisemitism and every other form of oppression, abuse and exploitation
@sharongelman @kbkorb the idea that we have to balance out any discussion on US Christian Nationalism & its corresponding imperialism with a discussion on victim nation’s track record is really offensive.
I thought I was standing in solidarity with opposing this stuff, but it seems it has to be balanced with blaming the victims.
I’m not holding you as an individual responsible for this stuff, if I decide to criticise US Christian Nationalism and its associated affects.
I routinely tell the QAnon people: Hey, you are using US political talking points here.
US Imperialism is based on its economic power and forced neo-liberalism. YouTube videos, cinema etc are all tools to spread this imperialism.
Oh we will fight it, without yout help. That’s all we can do.
I don’t care to talk about this further. What a shame.
I thought I was standing in solidarity with opposing this stuff, but it seems it has to be balanced with blaming the victims.
I’m not holding you as an individual responsible for this stuff, if I decide to criticise US Christian Nationalism and its associated affects.
I routinely tell the QAnon people: Hey, you are using US political talking points here.
US Imperialism is based on its economic power and forced neo-liberalism. YouTube videos, cinema etc are all tools to spread this imperialism.
Oh we will fight it, without yout help. That’s all we can do.
I don’t care to talk about this further. What a shame.
Neil Cameron@surprisedowl @sharongelman @kbkorb Well said @surprisedowl We're both perfectly aware of Australia's incipient problems, but that wasn't the subject of the original toot. Or at least neither you nor I thought it was until you dared to complain about the ongoing export of 'Murikan christian nationalism.
Suddenly, we're no longer allowed to note how bad that export situation is nor how negatively it can affect another country. We're not allowed to note Australian MAGAts quoting the US Constitution in uniquely Australian situations, but have to state how bad & naughty Oz is. W...T....F?!
@Option1 @sharongelman @kbkorb thanks Neil. You get it. I value the US/Australian alliance, but the cultural and political imperialism is overwhelming. It has been for decades. At least Sky News hasn’t been able to import the war on Christmas nonsense. Merry Christmas & happy Holidays to all.