Nicole RustDec 16, 2022

Continuing the countdown, Day 3 (of 10). Topic: Modern and fascinating ideas about the brain for us all to discuss. How likely is each idea to be true? And if true, what are the implications?

Brain idea 8: Of all the brain's functions, consciousness is one of the trickiest to study. In part, because we don't even know how to define what it is. Progress is happening around measuring levels of consciousness by combining complexity-based measures of EEG recorded brain activity (derived from physics), following noninvasive brain stimulation (TMS). These consciousness meters predict not only changes in consciousness level when we are awake versus asleep, but also which coma patients are 'locked in'. They also suggest that certain substances enhance consciousness.

The friendly version:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/08/25/1031776/the-hunt-for-hidden-signs-of-consciousness-in-unreachable-patients/

The deeper dive:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ejn.15800

#neuroscience
#BrainIdeasCountdown

The hunt for hidden signs of consciousness in unreachable patients

Experts may not agree on what consciousness is or isn’t. But that hasn’t stopped Marcello Massimini from peering into the minds of those with profound brain injuries to determine if anyone is still inside—and how to proceed with treatment.

MIT Technology Review
Show threadGrace LindsayDec 17, 2022
@NicoleCRust it is IMO an unreachable topic. I like to hear about what motivates people to describe their work as consciousness research given the heavy implications of that (and given that frequently other topic headings could fit it just as well).
Show threadBrian WandellDec 17, 2022

@NicoleCRust @Neurograce

Do any of you remember when Francis Crick did his book tour, and he ended his talk with an enthusiastic slide that read something like

!!! CONSCIOUSNESS NOW !!!

His talk included the claim that it was a moment, much like the time of DNA, when understanding consciousness was at hand. Around 1994. Crick and Koch were the chatGPT of that era.

You might both be too young to have seen any of this.

Show threadGrace LindsayDec 17, 2022
@wandell @NicoleCRust I guess that was the time of a formal search for the *neural correlates of consciousness*? Though that is a different quest
Show threadNicole RustDec 17, 2022

@Neurograce @wandell
I like how @anilkseth breaks down this space: Consciousness level (what I was referring to above); Consciousness content (awareness; the NCC); Consciousness Self (the Cartesian theater; Free Will).

I think folks are still searching for the NCC? https://www.nature.com/articles/nrn.2016.22

And there's the fun story that Christoph Koch has until next June to find it or he loses a case of Bordeaux to Chalmers:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23831830-300-consciousness-how-were-solving-a-mystery-bigger-than-our-minds/

Neural correlates of consciousness: progress and problems - Nature Reviews Neuroscience

Several brain regions and physiological processes have been proposed to constitute the neural correlates of consciousness. In this Review, Koch and colleagues discuss studies that distinguish the neural correlates of consciousness from other neural processes that precede, accompany or follow it, and suggest that the neural correlates of consciousness are localized to posterior cortical regions.

Nature
Show threadGrace LindsayDec 17, 2022
@NicoleCRust @wandell @anilkseth looks like we will need to be very busy the next 6 months!
Show threadNicole RustDec 17, 2022
@Neurograce @wandell @anilkseth
Indeed!
Show threadJaan AruDec 17, 2022

@NicoleCRust @Neurograce @wandell @anilkseth

It's indeed a frustrating topic to work on, especially given that people who have their own theories of consciousness are too fixated on them.

My point has been: instead of trying to study these old theories, we should follow new findings in neurobiology and try come up with novel ideas.

My own crappy way to use advances in neuroscience to develop a new view of consciousness was written up in this tics paper https://www.cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/fulltext/S1364-6613(20)30175-3

Show threadHB LabDec 17, 2022
@jaanaru @NicoleCRust @Neurograce @wandell @anilkseth cool theory!! Just out of curiosity, have u thought of any other possible substrates of consciousness beyong those slim elegant layer 5 pyramids.. 😉
Show threadJaan AruDec 17, 2022

@jiahongbo @NicoleCRust @Neurograce @wandell @anilkseth

Thanks! I've been working on this annoying topic for 18 years so there are quite some, but fortunately enough I haven't tried to write up all the stupid ideas I have had!

However, if people keep on pushing the idea that LLMs are conscious then I might need to get back into business. Anyone else feel this way?

Anyway, I am in the bed with a high fever so I should really put the phone down. Stay safe and healthy, everyone!

Show threadHB Lab
@jaanaru @NicoleCRust @Neurograce @wandell @anilkseth speedy recovery! 🍀🤞
Dec 17, 2022 at 8:06pmWeb