Moggy BeeNine years ago today we lost our sweet ole #Rowen to cancer at 15.5 years old…gone but never ever forgotten. She was the very goodest girl. ❤️
Ross of Ottawa@MoggyBee I still think about how hard it was losing a pet as an adult. It was such a dilemma transitioning to a new one, knowing you'll have to go through it again in 10-15 years.
Seriously thought about not doing it again 'cuz it was so painful, but convinced myself that giving a good life to a couple of cats was a net positive in the world.
Still, that final chapter is so hard.
mike@ottaross I decided never again to force a creature into a situation of dependence on me. When you conceptualize it like that, it’s clearly not okay. The decision was very much influenced by how hard it was to lose companion animals but fundamentally comes from facing the moral reality of companion animals.
After my mom died in ‘99, I was having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around it, and the bigger questions it raised. I decided that instead of turning away from it, I would expose myself to it further. I started keeping rats knowing that they are emotionally sophisticated creatures that bond mutually with humans, and they die after three or four years. I thought that maybe if I just kept experiencing it, I would figure something out. I would understand the nature of death and with understanding would come some kind of peace or acceptance.
It didn’t work like that. I lost about a dozen rats over fifteen years or so and it didn’t get easier. Each one broke me a little more. I discovered that death is exactly what every child fears it is, no more and no less. I just hurt myself and exploited animals for no benefit except for the selfish, myopic joy I took while in intervals of denial between tragedy.
I still need animal interaction, though. I’ve been spending time with neighbourhood animals. It took me a year but there are finally a couple of squirrels who know me. It makes me so happy when they “post” when they see me, and there is a mutual spark of recognition. My little black lumps!
@mike Yeah lots of the concepts I've pondered there too. Trying to find a balance between the dependence and indoor life that pets get versus the perceived freedom of wild and feral animals.
Ultimately the questions don't have absolute answers. The lives of the copious squirrels, rabbits, birds in our yard seem to be continuous terror of predators, deprivation from scarce food/water/shelter, and nasty disease/injuries thus short lives. Nature is cruel finding a bit of peace in there is hard.
@ottaross Nature is cruel, but nature didn’t make the biomass of cattle dwarf every other animal on the planet. Nature doesn’t have horrors that compare to the ones we inflict, but don’t have to. “Nature is cruel” is a cop out.
@ottaross I think it is (I wish I had a less inciting way to phrase this) willful self delusion and hubris to think that we can provide a better life for an animal than it can provide for itself; even in the face of the elements and predation, ie, exactly the situation it is adapted for. We cannot understand what an individual animal gets meaning from and we can’t manufacture it for them any more than you can for your child or spouse. All we can do is interfere with their ability to seek it.
@mike maybe a bit of that, but I think we also on the other side delude ourselves that wild/feral animals live any sort of idyllic life by having evolved to the situation. All their predators are similarly evolved and it's a continuous arms race. Even more (due to us) it's about inadequate access to the habitat to which they are best adapted.
@ottaross Meaning is more important than comfort. You’re not doing a creature a favour by taking away the treats it is adapted to deal with, rather you are creating a void of unexpressed evolutionary psychology. You cannot take away those threats without also taking away expressions that give meaning to life. It is worth facing a predator if it means feeding your brood.
Comfort that destroys all meaning is not a kindness. It’s motivated by one’s own emotional needs and the emotions we project on others. I mean, one might just as well go about painlessly euthanizing every wild creature that cannot be taken into shelter so that it does not suffer.
Making decisions about mates and children, about the value of one’s own life compared to one’s goals, about what to fundamentally be and do in life are the core experiences of being a living animal. When we make those decisions for other creatures, sometimes we create dogs, but mostly we create cattle. As a species, we are demonstrably not capable of making these decisions in a mature and ethical way and so I actively distrust and discount my own judgement to make such decisions for animals. I know I don’t know any better than they do.
@ottaross One of the specific experiences that influenced me after having it many times involves the end of life. My pets would get old, infirm, their quality of life would diminish, but they would not die. In nature their suffering would have long been over but here, I am their God and it is up to me to decide when their lives should end. It’s terrible, it’s fucking terrible. It’s not a decision a person should be having to make, and it’s certainly not a decision a person should build into their life as though it were their natural right to do it. I can never do that again.
@ottaross That dude’s comments were idiotic on a memorial post so he is now blocked. 😑