PadreSJ

In August 2011, Los Alamos techs posed 8 plutonium rods on a work table to take a few photos.

Had these rods rolled into each other there would have been an instant criticality event. (Think "Demon Core")

Worst still, a supervisor who saw the display ordered the techs to safe the rods, ignoring the protocol to evacuate EVERYBODY (b/c even a hand could moderate the neutrons & cause criticality).

It caused a 4-year, billion-dollar shutdown.

...

Smart people + overfamiliarity = stupid things.

Dec 6, 2022 at 9:11pmWeb
Show threadPhoebe WrightDec 6, 2022
@PadreSJ 😅
Show threaddr 🛠️🛰️📡🎧Dec 6, 2022
@PadreSJ I feel like each of these rods should have a safety officer handcuffed to it.
Show threadbrandon 🌻Dec 6, 2022
@PadreSJ huh TIL https://www.science.org/content/article/near-disaster-federal-nuclear-weapons-laboratory-takes-hidden-toll-america-s-arsenal
A near-disaster at a federal nuclear weapons laboratory takes a hidden toll on America's arsenal

Repeated safety lapses hobble Los Alamos National Laboratory’s work on the cores of U.S. nuclear warheads

Show threadCoral (bleached era)Dec 6, 2022
@PadreSJ i thought the 4 year shutdown was more because they asked everyone else who worked there what the problem with that was and everyone said “nothing! That’s cool as fuck and I do worse all the time!”
Show threadWillDec 7, 2022
@coral @PadreSJ this has made me intensely queezy
Show threadAndrewDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ if they had followed protocol and evacuated, how would the rods been “defused”? Remote control robot?
Show threadPadreSJDec 7, 2022

@cinebox All workers evacuated from the area.

Single technician sent in to remove each rod one by one, planning each in it's own containment vessel.

Show threadj.scherrerDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ idk what's more terrifying, those rods or that sharpie
Show threadrotopenguin Dec 7, 2022

@cuddlefish @PadreSJ *accidentally finding out that a sharpie is the perfect moderator*

neato.

*vomits guts, dies*

Show threadKoschDec 8, 2022
@cuddlefish @PadreSJ …that sharpie..😳
Show threadCharles J Gervasi ⚡🛡️🥥Dec 8, 2022
@Kosch @cuddlefish @PadreSJ Is there something dangerous about the Sharpie, or is it just an odd juxtaposition of something common with something rare and dangerous?
Show threadPadreSJDec 8, 2022

@cgervasi @Kosch @cuddlefish

I think people are pointing out that the sharpie (which was probably placed to show relative size of the rods) could possibly have acted as a moderator.

Show threadj.scherrerDec 9, 2022
@Kosch @cgervasi @PadreSJ also the fact that the plutonium is probably worth at least several 10s of millions of $$$, and the sharpie looks like it was buried underground for 10 years
Show threadThe Computer CellarDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ And I feel stupid when I don't disconnect a battery before swapping out an eDP display...
Show threadkira :3Dec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ actual homer simpson moment
Show thread0xC0DEC0DE07EADec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ yeah, just reach in there with your moderator hands, what could go wrong if you put a moderator between concentrated fissile materials! Gah
Show threadWEI EN MusicDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ who was it and was his name Homer Simpson
Show threadsilversword411Dec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ You suck at criticality...neutron-hater! 😆
Show threadjoemcintyreDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ with how well the demon core story is known theyd should have know better.
Show threadlike jam or bootlacesDec 7, 2022

@joemcintyre

I'm not so sure about the timing ... I don't recall widespread social media demon core discourse being a thing going all that far back

I could see that how well known it is could be because of these incidents, rather than the incidents having happened in spite of how well known they are amongst a wider nerd subculture

as it is even now I fully expect that not one of my sibs or sibs-in-law are at all familiar with criticality in general, let alone specific stories of unsafe handling

@PadreSJ

Show threadPadreSJDec 7, 2022

@idlestate @joemcintyre

That is really... sad.

Maybe it's just b/c my generation grew up under the threat of nuclear war, so all the nerds learned everything we could about how nuclear power/weapons work.

I mean, sure... it's not knowledge I use on the daily, but it is a fascinating area of science.

Show threadMishaDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ Crazy stuff: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_core
Demon core - Wikipedia

Show threadMultiforme Ingegno Dec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ
Show threadPJ "Vote Green" CoffeyDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ @funranium I'm sure you're familiar but on the off-chance you are not!
Show threadPadreSJDec 7, 2022

@Homebrewandhacking @funranium

Oh goodness yes!

I think of HIM every time I read a story about safety issues! 😁

Show threadlike jam or bootlacesDec 7, 2022

@PadreSJ

what if The Simpsons is a covert nuclear safety op

@Homebrewandhacking @funranium

Show threadfurraniumDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ @Homebrewandhacking This happened while I was still working with the national labs. Not nearly enough people got fired for this, but the shutdown reflects exactly how much cultural unfucking was required.
Show threadfurraniumDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ @Homebrewandhacking And, umm, the number of people they desperately needed to hire, with skills that no longer really exist, in one particular department.
Show threadPJ "Vote Green" CoffeyDec 7, 2022

@funranium @PadreSJ on an unrelated note the UK is doing the lemming rush to nuclear but hasn't got the skills anymore so is hiring in French and Chinese engineers.

It's great living in such an experimental economy taking such bold and unprecedented steps to outsource critical national infrastructure. Great 👍 👌 👍

Show threadfurraniumDec 7, 2022
@Homebrewandhacking @PadreSJ It's good to get competent and experienced staff. As I once crankily said when Fuckles the President was rattling nuclear sabers, everyone but the North Koreans have a similar issue with testing. https://www.funraniumlabs.com/2017/03/want-test-nuclear-weapon/
So, You Want To Test A Nuclear Weapon? - Funranium Labs

I dedicate the following rant to my Lovely Assistant, who can probably recite this by heart now, and Meredith Yayanos who hit boggleface about halfway through an in person version and asked “PLEASE, WRITE THIS SHIT DOWN.” Now I have. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that you have a brand new nuclear weapon. Let’s … Continue reading "So, You Want To Test A Nuclear Weapon?"

Funranium Labs
Show threadfurraniumDec 7, 2022
@Homebrewandhacking @PadreSJ Very, very unfortunately aware in excruciating detail.
Show threadUnidave199Dec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ Shouldnt they have used a bananna for scale? 😉
Show threadcobalt going beige todayDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ Oh dear, I had heard of this near-miss nuclear accident years ago but didn't understand just how serious it is and how it happens easily because of human error. Desensitized to safety risk - what a horrible fail.
Show threadCamilo Bravo Dec 7, 2022

@PadreSJ lighting could've used some attention

#bland #photography

Show threadMatt GDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ source?
Show threadХрюшкаDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ interesting, that the image is not distorted at all, besides epic neutron radiation level.
Show threadsxpertDec 7, 2022
@Ahnaeyu9 @PadreSJ the only thing the neutrons / emissions would do is add noise to the image
Show threadХрюшкаDec 7, 2022
@sxpert @PadreSJ exactly! Other images of radio nuclei that I've seen always had uniformly distributed white and black pixels, but I don't see any distortion on this image.
Show threadGeorge William HerbertDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ do you follow Cheryl Rofer on birbsite? She’s had some interesting things to say about that incident and the culture.
Show threadLorryDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ It's 'ealth and safety gone mad!
Show threadStephen K 🔑☢️⚛️🇺🇦 Dec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ Ahhh, yes, the spicy stick incident. A classic.
Show threadPadreSJDec 7, 2022
@CommieGIR Spicy radioactive boi!
Show threadStephen K 🔑☢️⚛️🇺🇦 Dec 7, 2022

@PadreSJ Yup. Its amazing how...unwittingly they did this. Having had to handle fuel in a hot cell before, its amazing someone would knowingly grab a stick of plutonium metal and stick it so close to other sticks of plutonium.

Thankfully in this case both the shape and the layout prevented a criticality incident, but man they really played with fire there.

Show threadSteptoe EdwallDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ wow!! Holy hell wow!! Crazy holy WTF!!
Show threadArclightDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ Criticality accidents are no joke. Look at the history of radiation accidents where people are seriously injured or killed and you'll find a disturbing number of criticality accidents. Putting things near other things, stirring a tank of liquid, etc. Twitchy AF.
Show threadChrisDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ This is making me recall an incident with kitty litter and nuclear waste. https://www.businessinsider.com/kitty-litter-nuclear-waste-accident-2016-8
Kitty litter caused one of the most expensive US nuclear mishaps ever

In February 2014, a drum of Cold War-era nuclear waste burst open inside the Waste Isolation Pilot Project, triggering an expensive yet "preventable" cleanup.

Insider
Show threadTh3 Ph3dDec 7, 2022

@PadreSJ Don't forget that Los Alamos also caught the long term nuclear storage facility (Waste Isolation Pilot Plant/WIPP) on fire due to them deviating from standards on packing material because someone got a good deal on the wrong type of kitty litter.

https://wipp.energy.gov/wipprecovery-accident-desc.asp (Phase 2 of the report gets into those details)

U.S. Department of Energy's Waste Isolation Pilot Plant - WIPP Recovery - Accident Description

WIPP

Show threadmrAXDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ eli5 what happens in a criticality event ?
Show threadEleanor LNR BlairDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ that is terrifying. Fuck.
Show threadPadreSJDec 7, 2022
@lnr Quite😱
Show threadWOMUMPDec 7, 2022
tbh this picture worries me just as a pen-chewer
Show threadCarnageDec 7, 2022
@PadreSJ surely that's not sufficient mass to go critical or are the rods bigger than they look?
Show threadPadreSJDec 7, 2022

@carnage Those look like 5KG rods of P-239.

Four of them touching, or two with a decent moderator between them is enough to go critical.

(Back of napkin math)

Show threadCarnageDec 8, 2022

@PadreSJ ok, so they are much heavier than they look :p

~10kg is the critical mass for a spherical ball of plutonium so your math seems about right given the non optimum rod shape

Show threadJBDec 8, 2022
@PadreSJ This is why we can't be trusted with nice things.
And need safeguarding from our reckless natures at times.
Or Darwin comes calling...
Show thread🦊.rawr => lambda yip: yap(yip)Dec 8, 2022

@PadreSJ I think the worst part about this isn't that it happened but why

It was a promotional photo. It was a very expensive promotional photo.

Show threadCharles J Gervasi ⚡🛡️🥥Dec 8, 2022
@PadreSJ Why does the rods' being close to one another cause more of a risk than decay from within a single rod?
Show threadPadreSJDec 8, 2022

@cgervasi

If four of those rods had rolled into each other, or a suitable moderator had been placed between two of them (like a hand), it would have become instantly critical.

Show threadkravietz 🦇Dec 10, 2022
@PadreSJ Haha, and he even managed to pose them in a way that disables these apparently anti-rolling spikes 🤦