Charles CobineDec 4, 2022
🦊.rawr => lambda yip: yap(yip)

Remember: if you get Wikipedia "pls give us money" begging, give to the Internet Archive instead.

The internet archive is perpetually underfunded, whereas Wikipedia has enough cash on hand to continue operating at twice its capacity for about 3 decades.

Editors strongly opposed the wording of the recent beg banner:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=1123763881#RfC_on_the_banners_for_the_December_2022_fundraising_campaign

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fundraising_statistics

Dec 1, 2022 at 4:55amWeb
Show thread🦊.rawr => lambda yip: yap(yip)Dec 1, 2022

Lotta people have mentioned no, it's not quite that dramatic.

Wikipedia goes down means IA takes up the slack, with no more funding.

I don't have exact numbers but judging from the number of quorans per day that get posted to IA, I'd say it might be on par traffic wise. Wikipedia does aggressive deduplication of data, IA says "Five copies is better than no copies and you can reassemble the bits of the wreckage worst case".

Show threadFrost「｜｜霜の狼｜人面獣心」🐺❄️Dec 1, 2022
@indrora Huh. Really good to know!
Show thread🦊.rawr => lambda yip: yap(yip)Dec 1, 2022
@frostwolf Yup. I updated the post to include some sauce, too.
Show threadFrost「｜｜霜の狼｜人面獣心」🐺❄️Dec 1, 2022
@indrora Thanks! Saw that, super helpful.
Show threadTiffany Lee Brown (she/they)Dec 1, 2022
@indrora The Internet Archive is notorious for stealing content from writers, publishers large and small, and other people who attempt to make culture and intellectual property for a living. Please do not support them.
Show thread🦊.rawr => lambda yip: yap(yip)Dec 1, 2022

@magdalen
The internet archive is literally the only place I have found information critical to keeping systems alive because someone happened to upload that purloined content that has become absolute unobtainium otherwise. It has content that because of content publishers going out of existence would have been lost.

Schools depend on it. NASA has depended on it.

It is simultaneously the graveyard and landfill of data.

Show threadGredinDec 1, 2022
@indrora @magdalen This seems like a poor forum to debate the business models of these two organizations. Each seems to have strengths and societal benefits (and maybe some flaws). How about the “Mastodonverse” (and other “verses”) supporting both of them?
Show threadTiffany Lee Brown (she/they)Dec 1, 2022

@gredin @indrora

I don't know what this forum is good for; I'm new here. Perhaps it isn't a good place for debate. But when someone pops into my feed telling me to give money to an organization that blatantly steals from people like me? I might comment back. Simple as that.

Show threadTiffany Lee Brown (she/they)Dec 1, 2022
@indrora Oh I use it too. But I also use Amazon and Facebook occasionally. I recognize that all three of these entities have been known to shit on the average person, and really don't care about destroying other people's jobs.
Show threadTiffany Lee Brown (she/they)Dec 1, 2022
@indrora Yeah, it does have that appeal. But like many tech efforts, no one seems to have thought through the effects it would have on the workers whose labor makes these efforts possible in the first place.
Show threadGaliDec 1, 2022
@indrora Thank you, I will consider that!
Show threadSara PassmoreDec 1, 2022
@indrora isn’t it funded by the Mormon Church. Part of their mission to collect all of human knowledge. That made loads of money from NY real estate, so I reckon putting some of their money to something useful might partially make up for the tax free status of their businesses.
Show threadmsyvrDec 1, 2022
@indrora thanks for this, I wasn't aware
Show threadThe Skeptic's Book of ListsDec 1, 2022
@indrora I used to love editing wiki but so many other editors would get into raging edit wars over the stupidest word choices or whether a photo you added truly represents what a Montreal #steamie hot dog actually looks like. Bah. Not enough time in my day...
Show threadSebastian WallrothDec 1, 2022
@indrora That's some bullshit framing - Wikipedia vs. Internet Archive. What about long-haul holiday flights, designer sneakers, or new smartphones every year?
Show threadLuis/Luigi ☭Dec 1, 2022

@real68er @indrora I haven't travelled in the whole past year (and last time was a domestic trip). I don't buy designer stickers and I have bought a phone this year, in order to retire my 5 years old phone

I don't really think most of the people who's being guilt-tripped into donating to Wikimedia meets the criteria you specify. Not to talk the banner is just straight up lying

Show threadMichael BDec 1, 2022
@indrora #Wikipedia itself is a large donor to archive.org, for a reason: archive.org supports the continuity of citations in Wikipedia' s articles, since archive.org retain cited pages. So in most cases when the owners take down such a page, the link to it can be replaced by a link to the archived version. In fact, this will often be done automatically by bots.
Show threadYosa Beam ✅🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️Dec 1, 2022
@indrora oh I did not know that! I’ll give to the @internetarchive in the future
Show threadDavid LynchDec 1, 2022
@indrora @anildash alternately… it has enough cash on hand to continue operating at current spending levels for about 18 months. That “continue operating” figure is literally just hosting costs for the servers — not even paying for devops to keep them running. No ongoing software development, no legal costs, etc.
Show threadAndrew DaviesDec 1, 2022

@indrora I had a quick look at their financials. They've got maybe a year and a half reserves from what I see.

This is normal, and not a lot I think, for this kind of organization. You want enough reserves to ensure stability since so many people rely on it. And you need reserves to handle risks (lawsuits, technology, whatever).

I am a big fan of both the Internet Archive and Wikimedia.

Show threadEnkiusz🇺🇦Dec 1, 2022
@indrora Interesting. I did not realise that WMF has this much cash on hand (236e6 USD at 2021 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising/Archive_6#Shame_on_you_WMF!_Shame!).
Talk:Fundraising/Archive 6 - Meta

Show threadPinkunz 🙃Dec 1, 2022

@indrora

Have to admit, after reading through the link, I'm feeling fairly cheated.

Show threadDunwich Type FoundersDec 1, 2022
@indrora what about Hathi Trust?
Show threadRoyGreenhiltDec 1, 2022

@indrora YEEEIKES. I was NOT aware that wikimedia was operating so in the black. They're LOADED.

I still donate approximately $10/mo to them, and I also donate to the internet archive. I believe #wikipedia to be an extremely (nay, I'd say vital) source of information to the world, and want to support it.

HOWEVER. I agree that the doom and gloom banners were inappropriate. That makes me sad.

Show threadtenkoDec 1, 2022
@indrora oh good thing to share, i was not aware of this. i guess another candidate for such donation could be winrar? (no i didn't check it's an attempt at joke :3 )
Show thread🇺🇦 Anna FilinaDec 1, 2022
@tenko @indrora I actually bought a license. It didn't feel right to abuse generosity.
Show threadAeryn  Dec 1, 2022
@indrora Thank you for this insight from the editors; I'll adjust my donation toward IA > WMF. ✌️
Show threadAndrewDec 1, 2022
@indrora omg really? I’ve been funding their begging for three years thinking I was doing something good. Feel like an idiot now.
Show thread🦊.rawr => lambda yip: yap(yip)Dec 1, 2022
@finite9
It's about a year and a half runtime on Wikipedia alone but WMF can keep it riding for a while, into a decade. Full numbers in the link.
Show threadRaven 🖤🏳️‍🌈Dec 1, 2022

@indrora Good to know. I've always looked down on the way Wikipedia asked for donations.

+1 to Internet Archive, a true champion of web data.

Show threadGrantDec 1, 2022
@indrora they're really going overboard with the begging this year
Show threadAdrian SegarDec 1, 2022
@indrora Thank you for sharing this. I already donate to #Wikipedia, and will now donate to the #InternetArchive too.
Show threadmirabilosDec 1, 2022
@indrora meet jimmywales-begging.jpg by… someone, years ago, I don’t know.
Show threadSteven Op de beeckDec 1, 2022
@indrora calling bullshit on your numbers. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/2/26/Wikimedia_Foundation_FY2021-2022_Audit_Report.pdf @anildash
Show threadcharlagDec 1, 2022
@indrora Please donate to WMF so that they keep wikipe… excuse me *hushes* what?… stock market? *cough* Ahem, invest into US companies and not disclose the spending!
Show threadChickgonebadDec 1, 2022
@indrora the internet archive is an important part of my work as an online librarian. I support them financially whenever I can.
Show threadabortretryfailDec 1, 2022

@indrora

Sure would be cool if Wikimedia helped Internet Archive with funding, considering how often Wikipedia's citations point to archive.org.

Show threadKay   Dec 2, 2022
@indrora I give to Wikipedia occasionally - by editing pages. That's more than enough of a contribution especially when I consider their biased policies. The resource is useful but it's not a replacement for well resourced libraries either.
Show threadNicholas MamoDec 2, 2022
@indrora How did you get the three-decade figure? (I'm just curious!) The second link says the assets are worth $239M, with yearly expenses at around half. Are there separate assets aside from fundraising?
Show threadMatthew EvanDec 3, 2022
@indrora You bet!
Show threadNemo_bis 🌈Dec 3, 2022

@indrora Yes! The #InternetArchive is a blessing for authors too, as the #AuthorsAlliance explains:
https://www.authorsalliance.org/2021/10/19/happy-25th-birthday-to-the-internet-archive/

This means more and better sources that #Wikimedia wikis can build upon.

Happy 25th Anniversary to the Internet Archive!

Photo by Stephanie McCabe on Unsplash This month, the Internet Archive is celebrating its 25th anniversary. At Authors Alliance, we regularly partner with the Internet Archive on projects around pr…

Authors Alliance
Show threadIván 💧🐍❄️🐧Dec 3, 2022

@indrora I am Wikimedian, I contribute to the Wikimedia Projects since some years, and I a strongly support your claim: if you want/can donate to Wikimedia projects, think about to donate IA or other interesting or economically poorest projects.

Wikimedia Foundation already has a lot funds and the worst is that there is not enough transparency about them nor about the usage. Even worst, there isn't an agreement about the spents they are doing with the donated money.

Sad, but true.

Show threadhikewithrichardDec 3, 2022
@indrora I gave in to your pressure. This being said I do really like the Internet Archive. I believe deeply in its mission. Tomorrow I will do more by writing a blog post.
Show threadCher TailorDec 4, 2022
@indrora Completely hypothetically, does the Internet Archive need tabletop game books?
Show threadRicardo G. Sousa 🇵🇹🇪🇺Dec 6, 2022
@indrora we are just losing faith on humanity 😔