If walking costs you $1, we all pay $0.01. If biking costs you $1, we all pay $0.08. If bussing costs you $1, we all pay $1.50. If driving costs you $1, we all pay $9.20. Via @thediscourse study.

This isn’t just about choice. It’s about who pays for your choice.

#citymakingmath #walking #bikes #cities #publictransit #transportatio #economics #urbanism #cityplanning #mobility

@BrentToderian I really don't like this computation, because I know what goes into it for buses, and so much of this depends on which bus and where. For example, in Vancouver, the Expo and Millennium Lines are operationally profitable and so are the busier buses (not just the 99-B but also the 3, 8, etc.), and the Canada Line probably would have been too if it hadn't been built as a PPP. The subsidies go to corner cases and auto-oriented areas with extremely low recovery ratios.
@BrentToderian 100 years ago there was 'commuter rail' between my rural farm neighborhood and the cities of Bellingham, Seattle & Abbotsford, BC. The old rail stop is 1/2 mile from my farm. I'd love to be able to hop a train to my job 15 miles away.

@BrentToderian yes!

I often wonder if messaging like this preaches to the choir. The same folks who mask, recycle, or otherwise think to protect others will follow suit. They probably knew something like this already. A few more will say, "that's nice, but it just doesn't work for me." And a very large number of folks are, for whatever reason, actively hostile.

How do we make the better choice the desired choice for more people?

@BrentToderian Where can I see what is included in these numbers?
@BrentToderian and for those who don't live in cities???

@BrentToderian Alas it’s difficult to explain to and convince people on the numerous ways that cars and fossil energy are subsidised.

I can think of a fair few but is there a nice source that lists all the subsidies? - especially the larger more subtle ones like how our governments effectively absolve businesses of the ecological liability of their fossil enterprises.

@BrentToderian the Problem is that the costs don't get properly passed through.

In fact, I'd argue that even $10/gal or €2,50/l is too cheap as a cost offset.

@BrentToderian Phrased another way, if gas was 10x the price, how many people would choose not to drive.

The problem with this proposal is that many of the costs of driving are a sunk cost (for society...not just for the driver), for example, spreading out of destinations makes things expensive for everyone, but if an individual stops driving there is no decrease in that spread.

@BrentToderian I can't comment on the exact figures, but I'm sure the principle holds good everywhere, certainly in the UK where I am.

@BrentToderian There's so much text on the image but no image description. May I ask why?

That doesn't seem very accessible for a post that is advocating for caring about other people.

@BrentToderian This reads like a political statement written for a general audience, but as someone who is decidedly not a transit expert, I can't make heads or tails of it. What do those numbers actually _mean_?

(Or is it really meant mainly for people with lots of background knowledge?)

@kechpaja @BrentToderian It's meant for people in the US who complain that public transportation is heavily subsidized. Part of the issue is that big-city US transit is inefficient (the New York City Subway would be operationally breaking even at Berlin U-Bahn unit operating costs), but a much bigger part is that "US public transit" lumps in New York (or Boston, or Chicago, etc.) with disaster zones like Houston where the operating cost is $6 per single-leg bus trip ($12 if you transfer).
@BrentToderian I'm guessing taking the train is like going by bus?
@BrentToderian the discourse needs to shift this way. What happened to the convo on "social return on investment" in academia? Did we forget about that?
@BrentToderian
What do they even mean by "If walking costs you $1"? Is that the cost of replacing worn out shoes? Or do people have to pay for using footpaths somewhere?

@flauschzelle @BrentToderian I expect it's calories. You know, how much food you need to eat to walk a certain distance.

I did come in here to point out that #electricbikes are actually more efficient than walking in terms of cost: especially if you charge your bike from solar panels. But essentially, you can't get a cheaper commute than an ebike and that option should be added to this list as something like half the cost of walking.

@BrentToderian why won’t more people walk and bike? I won’t ever understand it. It’s good for mental and physical health and it saves the planet. Humans - do your part!

@BrentToderian

Great diagram!

Now I feel even better about walking this morning instead of driving.

@BrentToderian what are the major cost categories?

@BrentToderian I don't like this kind of infographic. There's a disclaimer, but without linking to methodology it's too easy for contrarians to claim it's simply made up.

The disclaimer hints that it's uncertain; the system is too complex to assign a reliable dollar value. But it's possible to isolate specific costs.

It would be more meaningful to cite a few significant definable costs, then show their combined impact, rather than provide decimal-precise numbers with no methodology.

@BrentToderian Numbers on this graphic are probably outdated. The url at the bottom of it is no longer working. discoursemedia.org redirects to thediscourse.ca.

I found the graphic in this 2015 article. https://thediscourse.ca/scarborough/full-cost-commute
Home – The Discourse.

The Discourse.
@BrentToderian
Il est bon de se rappeler que nos soi-disant choix personnels sont aussi des choix que l'on impose à toute la société. Notre liberté de choix est une liberté illusoire qui est supporté par toute la collectivité.
sounds nice. but where do those numbers come from?