@tomstoreboe @elonmusk

For God's sake, why are you acting like I didn't literally just give you a graph of where US power is generated and the trends of each power source? Here's #Europe's past and projected. And I already gave you a graph of #EVs' lifetime #emissions vs. #ICE. There's a MASSIVE difference.

You don't get to substitute feelings over facts. The FACTS are that EVs are vastly cleaner than #ICEs and #hydrogen. Period.

@tomstoreboe @elonmusk There's about 12kg of lithium in a typical Tesla (large-battery EVs; shorter-range EVs have less). Seawater is 100ppb lithium. The oceans are 1,4e21kg. The oceans thus contain 1,4e14kg lithium, enough for 1,2e13 Teslas. That's 12.000.000.000.000 (12 quadrillion) Teslas. Exactly how many were you thinking about buying?

The only reason lithium isn't produced from the oceans isn't that it's expensive (it's only an estimated $5/kg - https://cen.acs.org/materials/inorganic-chemistry/Can-seawater-give-us-lithium-to-meet-our-battery-needs/99/i36)

@tomstoreboe @elonmusk And lithium clay is literally just digging up loose clay, extracting lithium salts (which can be done with nothing more complicated than table salt), and putting it back.

Again: you don't get to just substitute "things you feel" for *actual facts*.

@tomstoreboe @elonmusk God, I'm going to end up having to go into what batteries are actually made of, aren't I? Here, let me give you the TL/DR for now: it's no more exotic than the alloying agents, coatings, etc that go into your ICE vehicle's parts (and oil production itself).

I'll reiterate: your ICE car is powered by burning its entire weight of oil at 20-25% efficiency. These tonnes of neurotoxic and carcinogenic liquid per year are burned into similarly toxic exhaust & not recovered.

@tomstoreboe @elonmusk And again, vs. #hydrogen, #EVs take a small fraction as much of that energy energy to go a given distance. And don't use platinum, an *actually* rare metal.

So I again cannot stress enough: experts are not supporting a transition to EVs on a lark. They're supporting them because they're a *vastly* superior solution. And as the grid *continues* to get cleaner, all EVs on the road get *even cleaner* along with it.

@nafnlaus @elonmusk I see your graphs and yet they don't reflect the true reality in my opinion.
Up until now we are producing our electricity worldwide mostly from non renewable sources and this is because our demand is increasing. Very little has changed there.

Did you look at the amount of water required for the extraction of #lithium?

https://footprintfacts.org/the-surprising-environmental-cost-of-lithium-ion-batteries/

Lithium nor platinum are rare earth metals I discovered, however EV's use their share of seabed mined metals. All is not good.

@tomstoreboe @elonmusk " I see your graphs and yet they don't reflect the true reality in my opinion"

Wow. Just rejecting facts outright. Well, if you choose live in a made-up fantasyland, what's the point of even talking with you?

"Did you look at the amount of water"

"Footprintfacts.org" is not a credible source of information.

#Lithium is *not* found in any meaningful quantity in *potable* water (freshwater). It's found in *brine*, which is sundried to concentrate it. *Nonpotable*.

@tomstoreboe @elonmusk You can't drink brine. You can't water crops with brine. Talking about the amount of brine used as though it's drinking water is absurd. Other minerals are also recovered from the brine. The remaining salts are left on the salar, and when it next rains turn back into brine, leaving the salar exactly the same as it was before, minus the lithium.

(And note that that's just *one* source of #lithium).

@tomstoreboe @elonmusk *Small* amounts of freshwater are used to *refine* lithium, but that can be done literally anywhere.

The amount of water used in lithium production wouldn't even show up on a graph of global water consumption even if you printed it out the size of a billboard. It's a meaninglessly tiny amount. ***Unlike oil***. And water is also used in producing ***every part of every ICE car as well***, but you don't give a rat's arse about that.

@tomstoreboe @elonmusk "Lithium nor platinum are rare earth metals I discovered"

Have you yet discovered that you know bugger all about this topic, despite your adamant opinions about it?

Rare earth = specific category of minerals. Not actually rare.

Neither #platinum nor #lithium are rare earths. But #platinum is *rare*, while lithium is not.

@tomstoreboe @elonmusk "however EV's use their share of seabed mined metals"

NOTHING uses "its share of seabed mined minerals" except for #OIL. Oil is the ONLY thing used by humanity from which a sizable fraction comes from the sea floor.

#Batteries are NOT made from seabed minerals. PERIOD. This is simply not in accordance with the reality in which we live.

@tomstoreboe @elonmusk There are two main categories of li-ion batteries used in EVs: LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) and nickel-rich, either NCA (Nickel Cobalt Alumium) or NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt). #LFP is generally used in shorter-range EVs, while #NMC and #NCA in longer-range.

Let's look at what makes up the bulk of a #LFP battery as an example. As noted, it's NOT #lithium; a battery is 1-3% Li, & Li is, as extensively covered, one of the most environmentally-friendly minerals produced.