Katerina Marchán

since a lot of folks are becoming newly interested in escaping corporate silos and moving to community-based services, are you aware of @matrix?

Matrix is to Slack and Discord, what Mastodon is to Twitter: a decentralized, federated network based on open standards/specs. It also supports full end-to-end encryption, just like Signal, so you can exchange messages privately!

If you find the fediverse interesting/inspiring, I recommend giving matrix a whirl. The quickest way to get started is to head over to https://app.element.io/ and make a (free!) account (although you can also join any number of other home servers, or host your own--they all talk to each other!).

If you _do_ end up checking it out, please do say hi! I'm @zkat:zkat.tech over there. I also manage a "space" (a group of channels, kinda like a Discord server) that you can join by clicking here: https://matrix.to/#/!tKdDSgQTxQzcOuTXqV:matrix.org?via=zkat.tech&via=matrix.org&via=envs.net

I hope this sparks your interest! I'd love to see you over there, too!

Element

Nov 9, 2022 at 9:55pmWeb
Show threadKaterina MarchánNov 9, 2022

some other thoughts: someone on here recently referred to the Mastodon migration as a good example of the whole dual power philosophy: setting up healthy, community-based alternatives to the current systems of power, ready to have people fall back to them (and all their benefits), when they're finally forced out of the current power structures.

I think building that out for Matrix, even if it doesn't completely replace all your communities (yet!) is something that is worth getting started with right now! It doesn't hurt to get yourself a Matrix account, after all, and you might find some community and discover you like it a lot! (I do! I wish my Discord communities lived there!)

Show threadCynthia loves masksNov 9, 2022
@zkat waves hello over there!
Show threadEmma H Nov 9, 2022

@zkat

I'd love to get my #rocketry discorders over there.

Show threadlulolwenNov 9, 2022

@zkat When I saw a bunch of gaming communities drop Streamlabs OBS because of Streamlabs being shady, I had hoped that I'd see those gaming communities react similarly when Twitter (inevitably and eventually) became unusable, but a lot of people still haven't left the birdapp. Discord's also inevitably going to be untrustworthy after their flirting with NFTs, but... Matrix+Element is an even harder UX sell than Mastodon.

I hope, but have doubts.

Show threadwb x64Nov 10, 2022
@lulolwen @zkat open source software might not have the polish and cute stuff like corporate software, but honestly Element feels very very similar to discord and slack. A slight reskin and a few UX volunteers and you could make the experience near identical IMO.
Show threadxormanNov 10, 2022
@wilbr @lulolwen @zkat Element is corporate software, a VC-backed, for-profit business, not a community endaevour, unlike XMPP.
Show threadwb x64Nov 10, 2022

@xorman @lulolwen @zkat what I mean is it's free, open source, and decentralized, as opposed to ad-based, proprietary, and centralized. Ubuntu is also a corporation but if they decide to do anything I dislike I can legally copy paste the source, change what I dislike, and go about my day.

I run my own XMPP server too, but nobody I know uses XMPP anymore unfortunately. I do however contribute to Pidgin's protocol plugins so I don't have to use these companies' dang website.

Show threadvague 🔥Nov 9, 2022
@zkat too bad the matrix clients are all kind of poo-poo. But never fear! There is always #irc :)
Show threadKaterina MarchánNov 9, 2022
@vague Element has come a long way, tbh. It might be missing a couple of bells and whistles, but I definitely wouldn't call it poo-poo anymore?
Show threadLokiBerraNov 10, 2022
@zkat @vague Element has gotten better. It sometimes feels a bit disorganized (ex synapse vs dendrite). But is guess choice is part of the benefits
Show threadJNov 10, 2022
@lokiberra @zkat @vague My main issue with element is that sometimes eventual consistency and inconsistent data exposure bites people (myself included)... you'd make a change or alter a setting and sometimes it'd take, sometimes it wouldn't, sometimes it'd only work after 5 minutes. That and privacy settings for servers and data control were hit and miss with no easy way to be sure they worked...
Show threadJNov 10, 2022
@lokiberra @zkat @vague Still, it's something that can be addressed - they're all solvable problems. Just needs time.
Show threadxyhhxNov 10, 2022
@lokiberra @zkat @vague dendrite vs synapse isn’t an element issue. Element’s biggest issue is its lacklustre integration manager (stickers and custom emoji). Cinny seems to have figured that part out, but handles spaces weirdly (imo)
Show threadLokiBerraNov 10, 2022
@xyhhx @zkat @vague I meant Matrix overall, not specifically Element
Show threadxyhhxNov 10, 2022
@lokiberra @zkat @vague i think that’s kind of more to @zkat ‘s point about it being like the fediverse, in that multiple servers/clients are compatible with each other. Users generally don’t see the difference
Show threadJonas VautherinNov 9, 2022
@vague @zkat IRC is too often forgotten, I think it's great, partly because of all the clients for all tastes!
Show threadLuis/Luigi ☭Dec 27, 2022
@vague @zkat #irc is not a good alternative to #matrix since IRC is not federated. Also it focuses largely on chat rooms rather than individual chats
Show threadzrzzDec 27, 2022
@LuigiDev @zkat @vague I've seen the "IRC not federated" claim before and it doesn't make sense to me. In it's heyday IRC was a federated wild west with hundreds or thousands of independently operated servers talking to each other. If you are saying that IRC's original federation model is not robust enough for today's hostile Internet that's a different argument and I can accept that.
Show threadLuis/Luigi ☭Dec 27, 2022

@zrzz @zkat @vague I'm curious. How did server talk to each other exactly? I may be missing something her.

On the other hand. Building something based on the premise that people is not going to abuse it is usually a weak premise

Show threadCthosNov 9, 2022
@zkat I kinda wish my discords were over there too. I also appreciate vibing.space existing even though I mostly just lurk.
Show threadKaterina MarchánNov 10, 2022
@cthos yeah, I like the space existing, but it's mostly a quiet space. I've been trying to nudge it a little towards life to see what happens, but I think it's hard with a space like that that has no inherent purpose besides "we hang out and chill"
Show threadGlennNov 10, 2022
@zkat Agreed. Matrix has its issues but it continues just keep improving week by week. I've had my instance running for a few years ready for when more people "see the light"
Show threadReina  Nov 10, 2022

@zkat I stopped using Discord once the Matrix spec and Element had implemented enough functionality that I felt like I could dailydrive it. That was a month or so ago.

I still have a Discord account but I do not use it unless I absolutely need to, and I don't give it out to people anymore. My username there now is literally "Reina (read my bio)" and then my bio links people to my Matrix account with an explanation for why :p

Show threadpedroNov 9, 2022
@zkat
Matrix is so underrated. Thanks for sharing the invite to your space, I'll join!
@matrix
Show threadBen RamseyNov 9, 2022
@zkat @matrix I have tried so many times over the years to set up and run my own Matrix servers, but I have failed each time. It seems so much more difficult than running Mastodon. 😔
Show threadKaterina MarchánNov 9, 2022
@ramsey @matrix I just pay for EMS and call it a day tbh
Show threadBen RamseyNov 9, 2022
@zkat @matrix I tried EMS, too, but the server kept running out of memory.
Show threadKaterina MarchánNov 10, 2022
@ramsey @matrix weird. I've literally never had that issue, but maybe I'm not joining a lot of Big Rooms??
Show threadBen RamseyNov 10, 2022
@zkat @matrix I was trying to set up a bunch of community channels and then bridge them with IRC, but then realized I couldn’t do the bridging on EMS, so I moved them all over to matrix.org.
Show threadwb x64Nov 10, 2022
@ramsey @zkat @matrix I run my own Matrix via @yunohost btw and have only had the growing pains of any self hosted anything. (Akin with setting up a web server or email server.) Anyway joining the default server probably isn't bad either.
Show threadHojjat Nov 10, 2022
@ramsey @zkat @matrix I failed to host my own mastodon. But Matrix was an ansible play book away. Worked pretty well.
Show threadBen RamseyNov 10, 2022
@hojjat @zkat @matrix Funny how that works. Maybe my brain just doesn't grok the way Matrix is designed. 😆
Show threadEli HootenNov 10, 2022

@ramsey @zkat @matrix same. I never could get it running reliably. Although I've paid for ems for ..a couple of years now? And it works great. I keep it to friends and family though so it only handles about twenty members. I think it's great for that use case.

I'm a bit more suspect about trying to run a larger community using matrix/ems, but that's probably my own insecurity talking more than anything else.

Show threadArya K   Nov 10, 2022
@ramsey @zkat @matrix 1) try conduit or dendrite (both are a bit buggy tho) 2) dont join anything bigger than 2000 participants. I have a synapse server running on my pi and it works great since i only use it for bridging. Normal instances take more than 10-15 gigs ram tho 💀 3) Check out XMPP :) prosody rarely goes above 300 mb for a normal setting
Show threadRAOFMar 15, 2023

@arya @ramsey @zkat @matrix My Synapse instance doesn't use anywhere near that, and I've got all the caching knobs turned waaaaay up (as it's running on an old HP N54L microserver with plenty of RAM but a potato CPU and a rotating rust array backing the DB).

It's a single(ish) user instance, but it's joined to a bunch of big rooms (including Matrix HQ, at 44K members), and my understanding of Synapse performance is that room complexity dominates and users are basically free. Synapse is at about 2GB RSS.

Now, performance on my potato is on the slow side, but I'm pretty sure that's more a matter of don't-back-PostgreSQL-on-untuned-ZFS-on-slow-rotating-rust than anything else.

Show thread☭ Dub-Sky, Juggalo Jedi 🕈Nov 9, 2022
@zkat Hey hey thanks for giving me a demonstration of what Spaces are supposed to be for. Couldn't intuit it from the feature pitch ><
Show threadJagermoNov 9, 2022
@zkat @matrix I've been using Element with the bridges for #whatsapp and #signal, it is so good. Oh, and I have a #conduit Server running for my kids and their friends.
Show threadChristian FosliNov 9, 2022

@zkat @matrix I learned about matrix when checking out the #helix editor (vim alternative). They do their project discussions and help new users there.

I really like it :smile:

Show threadAnselm SchülerNov 9, 2022
@zkat @matrix Matrix is truly great! I only hope the ecosystem for non-Element clients grows (with more feature support). I’m currently eyeing the redevelopment of Fractal.
Show threadMariusNov 9, 2022
@zkat @matrix never heard of this before, I'll definitely check it out! Just started to explore the fediverse a week ago ish 😅
Show threadAriadne Conill 🐰Nov 9, 2022

@zkat @matrix

unlike mastodon and other AP servers, matrix makes blocking homeservers run by bad communities far more difficult than it should be.

Show threadkouhai, of the health issuesNov 9, 2022
@ariadne @zkat @matrix see also: the harassment of the asahi linux channel
Show threadLuna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱Nov 9, 2022
@zkat @matrix Another great alternative is XMPP (sometimes called Jabber) which is also an open, decentralized messenger. XMPP is a more basic, simple protocol than Matrix, but it also supports voice and video calls as well as full end to end encryption.

Personally, I use both XMPP and Matrix.
Show threadBLWNNov 10, 2022
@zkat @matrix I've tried (and still have) an account, but like with any other social enterprise, getting others to join has been the big hurdle I've faced here. It's just too easy for most to stay with Slack or Teams or whatever Chat-du-jour Google has come up with recently. Not sure if there's a killer feature that would inspire them to move to a new platform unfortunately.
Show threadvriska, thief of light Nov 10, 2022
@zkat im still not over when i tried joining a large matrix.org room from another homeserver and after 45 minutes it wasn't done loading
im sure that had nothing to do with most matrix developers being employed by a company that has a strong financial interest in hosting your own matrix homeserver being impractical.
Show threadKaterina MarchánNov 10, 2022
@leo I mean you get the exact same problem with mastodon and micro instances. When you start federating, data takes a while to transfer. I honestly don’t see your point about the financial incentive
Show threadMelissa Nov 10, 2022
@matrix @zkat Does Matrix do voice chat, too? Or is it only text?
Show threadKaterina MarchánNov 10, 2022
@codecat @matrix it has voice and video too yeah.
Show threadRomeo ValentinNov 10, 2022
@zkat @matrix +1 for this! Note that matrix/element also integrates with Jitsi, an open-source Zoom alternative that works quite well!
https://meet.element.io/
Jitsi Meet

Join a WebRTC video conference powered by the Jitsi Videobridge

Show threadCarlsouthernNov 10, 2022
@zkat @matrix I love the idea, but a very unfortunate name.
Show thread🍓JuiceyWolfie🐺Nov 10, 2022
@zkat @matrix I don't think it'll replace my Discord for now. BUT I also thought that Mastodon wasn't going to replace my socials sooooo. I'm always on the lookout for less big tech options.
Show threadMark HurstNov 10, 2022
@zkat @matrix I've listed Matrix at https://goodreports.com (my list of non-Big Tech tools) but haven't listed it as a Slack alternative. Thanks for pointing this out.
Good Reports: the best online tools and reviews

Show threadcslinuxboyNov 10, 2022
@zkat @matrix #matrix all the way! All my friends and family use it and it's getting very good.
Show threadArctic (back up - see pinned)Nov 10, 2022
@zkat Personally I unfortunately always found matrix lacks polish
While I love the idea of federation I don't want to have to give up ease of use
Show threadNicolas PettiauxNov 10, 2022
@zkat @matrix very well said. Thanks
Show threadflowerNov 10, 2022
@zkat @matrix sounds interesting! Will give it a try 👍🏼
Show threadAlphonseNov 10, 2022

@zkat @matrix
@temptoetiam

Ça existerait en français ?

Show threadOlivierNov 10, 2022

@Alphonse

@zkat @matrix @[email protected] Element est traduit en français, oui. Et il marche bien aussi

À priori, c'est le couple Matrix+Élément que le gouvernement a choisi pour son chat interne ("tchip", si je me souviens bien). Par contre, la fédération n'était - il me semble - pas activée chez eux.

Show threadAlphonseNov 14, 2022

@olivierm @zkat @matrix @temptoetiam

🙂🙂 On va creuser la question ici !

Show threadDarnell Clayton Nov 10, 2022
@zkat @matrix I am on Matrix & I love it! I am @darnell:shh.Darnell.ooo & I will message you on Matrix.