Sharon IraniNov 18, 2019
muesli
Tradition is just peer pressure from dead people...
Oct 27, 2019 at 12:12pmWeb
Show threadGuillaume 🦗Oct 27, 2019
@fribbledom
It is, but sometimes traditions have been selected by cultural evolution for very good reasons. Sometimes it's completely pointless. Sometimes there used to be a good reason, but it's not justified anymore. It's not always easy to see when you should drop a tradition.
Show threadPrimoOct 27, 2019
@guillaume
If you have an actual reason besides "that's how others have done it", is it really tradition?
Show threadGuillaume 🦗Oct 27, 2019

@Primo I think it's a bit more subtle: those who follow the tradition may not know the reason. It can have evolved on its own, with fake justifications invented later.

I can't think of any very good examples, but instance:
- Some religious food taboos (shrimp, pork, etc) that probably evolved because of allergies or diseases or for a more efficient use of limited resources, but are simply seen as God's will.
- The complex preparation of manioc that contains dangerous levels of cyanide: "Ask why they do this, and they will not mention hydrogen cyanide. They will simply say "this is our culture". " (from https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48859333)

How do people learn to cook a poisonous plant safely?

Cassava is very dangerous if not prepared properly, so how did people develop and share that knowledge?

BBC News
Show threadsyntaktisOct 27, 2019
@guillaume
@Primo
Don't remember where I 've read it (some discussion, some link on vinegar, here in mastodon, maybe), but it was talking about fermentation, and how we did it, for centuries, without having a clue why it really worked. A good example of following the tradition.
Pork and such, on the other hand is a good example not to follow tradition. Example: fasting. What a stupid idea.
Show threadPrimoOct 28, 2019

@syntaktis @guillaume I propose different reasons for the vinegar situation:
1) they had use for vinegar - that's why they made it.
2)It worked, that's why they did it that way.

No need to call for tradition.

Once people understood the mechanisms behind it, they were able to develope new ways to make vonegar.

Show threadGuillaume 🦗Oct 28, 2019
@Primo @syntaktis
But how did they guess how to make it, without any modern chemistry or biology knowledge?
Show threadPrimoOct 28, 2019
@guillaume @syntaktis Not through tradition.
Someone left vine, it turned sour and they liked it so they recreated the process.
Show threadGuillaume 🦗Oct 28, 2019

@Primo @syntaktis
Ah, if you're using "tradition" in the narrow sense of what we were talking about earlier (a tradition with fake justifications/beliefs/rituals attached to it), then I agree. I have not heard of beliefs like "you need to perform this silly dance in order for the wine to turn into vinegar".

I would says there are traditions of vinegar making, cheese making, etc. The process was not only repeated, it was refined over generations, even without any theoretical understanding, just by trial and error. It's cultural evolution. But again it sounds like we use the word tradition in different ways.

Show threadPrimoOct 28, 2019
@guillaume @syntaktis not different ways. Opposite ways.
Show threadGuillaume 🦗Oct 28, 2019
@Primo
How so? How do you define tradition?
Show threadsyntaktisOct 28, 2019
@Primo
My example is simplified but, @guillaume, you take "simplification" to extremes. Of course, this is not how things worked. When they made something, they followed a procedure. Some of the steps were necessary some of them were totally useless. But people followed them, because that is how they were taught to do it. People couldn't go around reinventing the wheel for every single thing.
Show thread-iOct 27, 2019

@fribbledom

LOL
practices of the living-dead ;)

Show threadMr. TeatimeOct 27, 2019

@fribbledom
so much yes!

...although, yeah, some tradition does serve a purpose and saves us from having to reinvent useful behaviour again, each generation.
But then again, the times they are a-changing ... somebody should write all those traditions down, and why we have them, so we can then periodically check whether the reasons still exist, or maybe we've found a better way to deal with the thing ...

Show threadMario VavtiOct 27, 2019
@muesli tradition is dissemination of the fire not worshiping of the ashes.
Show threadϝμδέOct 27, 2019
@fribbledom lool🤣
Show threadmACABeeOct 27, 2019
@fribbledom ancestral pressure
Show threadmACABeeOct 27, 2019
about 100 PSI of ghosts in here, we gotta perform some traditional acts to lower the pressure!!
Show threadIcarosityOct 28, 2019
@fribbledom Thoreau said something similar to this in Walden but in other words and reading it in my teens was freeing. I realized it was not only permissible but desirable to examine tradition and just use what actually works.