@gunstick yes I know what they are, I have also downloaded some demos from these parties, or watched some videos on youtube. But I am not in the demo scene, not enough time to do anything good. If you want to do some #atari8 programming try out coding using DLIs to increase the colour range beyond the offical graphic mode limits. You can achieve quite a lot and many demos use that technique. For add-ons the #side3 and #fujinet