Higher Order Sign Relations • Discussion 1
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2025/03/27/higher-order-sign-relations-discussion-1-a/

Re: FB | Charles S. Peirce Society • John Corcoran
https://www.facebook.com/groups/peircesociety/posts/1768975423238442/

Questions about the proper treatment of use and mention from the standpoint of Peirce’s theory of signs came up recently in discussions on Facebook. In pragmatic semiotics the trade‑off between “signs-of-objects” and “signs-as-objects” opens up the wider space of Higher Order Sign Relations. In previous work on Inquiry Driven Systems I introduced the subject in the following way.

When interpreters reflect on their use of signs they require an appropriate technical language in which to pursue their reflections. They need signs referring to sign relations, signs referring to elements and components of sign relations, and signs referring to properties and classes of sign relations. The orders of signs developing as reflection evolves can be organized under the heading of “higher order signs” and the reflective sign relations involving them can be referred to as “higher order sign relations”.

References —

John Corcoran
https://johncorcoran.academia.edu/

Schemata : The Concept of Schema in the History of Logic
https://www.academia.edu/12691868/SCHEMATA_THE_CONCEPT_OF_SCHEMA_IN_THE_HISTORY_OF_LOGIC

Use And Mention, Use Without Mention, Mention Without Use
https://www.academia.edu/s/ea64a3484e/schemata#comment_525151

Resources —

Higher Order Sign Relations
https://oeis.org/wiki/Inquiry_Driven_Systems_%E2%80%A2_Part_12#Higher_Order_Sign_Relations

Survey of Inquiry Driven Systems
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2024/02/28/survey-of-inquiry-driven-systems-6/

Survey of Semiotics, Semiosis, Sign Relations
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2024/01/26/survey-of-semiotics-semiosis-sign-relations-5/

#Peirce #Inquiry #Logic #Mathematics #Reflection
#Semiotics #SignRelations #HigherOrderSignRelations
#InquiryDrivenSystems #ReflectiveInterpretiveFrameworks
#Arithmetization #GödelNumbers #Quotation #UseAndMention

Higher Order Sign Relations • Discussion 1

Re: FB | Charles S. Peirce Society • John Corcoran Questions about the proper treatment of use and mention from the standpoint of Peirce’s theory of signs came up recently in discussions…

Inquiry Into Inquiry

Higher Order Sign Relations • 1
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2025/03/22/higher-order-sign-relations-1-a/

Higher Order Sign Relations • Introduction —

When interpreters reflect on their use of signs they require an appropriate technical language in which to pursue their reflections. They need signs referring to sign relations, signs referring to elements and components of sign relations, and signs referring to properties and classes of sign relations. The orders of signs developing as reflection evolves can be organized under the heading of “higher order signs” and the reflective sign relations involving them can be referred to as “higher order sign relations”.

Some years ago I was formatting my old dissertation proposal on Inquiry Driven Systems for the web when the subject of “signs about signs” arose on the Peirce List. It called to mind the part of my document on Higher Order Sign Relations, on which basis Reflective Interpretive Frameworks are constructed, and the introduction to which begins as above.

Resources —

Inquiry Driven Systems
https://oeis.org/wiki/Inquiry_Driven_Systems_%E2%80%A2_Overview

Reflective Interpretive Frameworks
https://oeis.org/wiki/Inquiry_Driven_Systems_%E2%80%A2_Part_10#Reflective_Interpretive_Frameworks

Higher Order Sign Relations
https://oeis.org/wiki/Inquiry_Driven_Systems_%E2%80%A2_Part_12#Higher_Order_Sign_Relations

Survey of Inquiry Driven Systems
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2024/02/28/survey-of-inquiry-driven-systems-6/

Survey of Semiotics, Semiosis, Sign Relations
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2024/01/26/survey-of-semiotics-semiosis-sign-relations-5/

#Peirce #Inquiry #Logic #Mathematics #Reflection
#Semiotics #SignRelations #HigherOrderSignRelations
#InquiryDrivenSystems #ReflectiveInterpretiveFrameworks

Higher Order Sign Relations • 1

Higher Order Sign Relations • Introduction When interpreters reflect on their use of signs they require an appropriate technical language in which to pursue their reflections.  They need …

Inquiry Into Inquiry

Signs Of Signs • 4
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2025/03/20/signs-of-signs-4-a/

Re: Michael Harris • Language About Language
https://mathematicswithoutapologies.wordpress.com/2015/05/23/language-about-language/comment-page-1/#comment-380

❝But then inevitably I find myself wondering whether a proof assistant, or even a formal system, can make the distinction between “technical” and “fundamental” questions. There seems to be no logical distinction. The formalist answer might involve algorithmic complexity, but I don't think that sheds any useful light on the question. The materialist answer (often? usually?) amounts to just‑so stories involving Darwin, and lions on the savannah, and maybe an elephant, or at least a mammoth. I don't find these very satisfying either and would prefer to find something in between, and I would feel vindicated if it could be proved (in I don't know what formal system) that the capacity to make such a distinction entails appreciation of music.❞

Peirce proposed a distinction between “corollarial” and “theorematic” reasoning in mathematics which strikes me as similar to the distinction Michael Harris seeks between “technical” and “fundamental” questions.

I can't say I have a lot of insight into how the distinction might be drawn but I recall a number of traditions pointing to the etymology of “theorem” as having to do with the observation of objects and practices whose depth of detail always escapes full accounting by any number of partial views.

On the subject of music, all I have is the following incidental —

🙞 Riffs and Rotes
https://oeis.org/wiki/Riffs_and_Rotes

Perhaps it takes a number theorist to appreciate it …

Resource —

Higher Order Sign Relations
https://oeis.org/wiki/Inquiry_Driven_Systems_%E2%80%A2_Part_12#Higher_Order_Sign_Relations

#Peirce #Inquiry #Logic #Mathematics #Reflection
#Semiotics #SignRelations #HigherOrderSignRelations

Signs Of Signs • 4

Re: Michael Harris • Language About Language But then inevitably I find myself wondering whether a proof assistant, or even a formal system, can make the distinction between “technical&r…

Inquiry Into Inquiry

Signs Of Signs • 3
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2025/03/19/signs-of-signs-3-a/

Re: Michael Harris • Language About Language
https://mathematicswithoutapologies.wordpress.com/2015/05/23/language-about-language/comment-page-1/#comment-353

❝And if we don't [keep our stories straight], who puts us away?❞

One's answer, or at least one's initial response to that question will turn on how one feels about formal realities. As I understand it, reality is that which persists in thumping us on the head until we get what it's trying to tell us. Are there formal realities, forms which drive us in that way?

Discussions like those tend to begin by supposing we can form a distinction between external and internal. That is a formal hypothesis, not yet born out as a formal reality. Are there formal realities which drive us to recognize them, to pick them out of a crowd of formal possibilities?

Resources —

Higher Order Sign Relations
https://oeis.org/wiki/Inquiry_Driven_Systems_%E2%80%A2_Part_12#Higher_Order_Sign_Relations

Survey of Pragmatic Semiotic Information
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2024/03/01/survey-of-pragmatic-semiotic-information-8/

Survey of Semiotics, Semiosis, Sign Relations
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2024/01/26/survey-of-semiotics-semiosis-sign-relations-5/

#Peirce #Inquiry #Logic #Mathematics #Reflection
#Semiotics #SignRelations #HigherOrderSignRelations

Signs Of Signs • 3

Re: Michael Harris • Language About Language And if we don’t [keep our stories straight], who puts us away? One’s answer, or at least one’s initial response to that question …

Inquiry Into Inquiry

Signs Of Signs • 2
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2025/03/18/signs-of-signs-2-a/

Re: Michael Harris • Language About Language
https://mathematicswithoutapologies.wordpress.com/2015/05/23/language-about-language/comment-page-1/#comment-346

❝I compared mathematics to a “consensual hallucination”, like virtual reality, and I continue to believe that the aim is to get (consensually) to the point where that hallucination is a second nature.❞

I think that's called “coherentism”, normally contrasted with or complementary to “objectivism”. It's the philosophy of a gang of co‑conspirators who think, “We'll get off scot‑free so long as we all keep our stories straight.”

Resources —

Higher Order Sign Relations
https://oeis.org/wiki/Inquiry_Driven_Systems_%E2%80%A2_Part_12#Higher_Order_Sign_Relations

Survey of Pragmatic Semiotic Information
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2024/03/01/survey-of-pragmatic-semiotic-information-8/

Survey of Semiotics, Semiosis, Sign Relations
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2024/01/26/survey-of-semiotics-semiosis-sign-relations-5/

#Peirce #Inquiry #Logic #Mathematics #Reflection
#Semiotics #SignRelations #HigherOrderSignRelations

Signs Of Signs • 2

Re: Michael Harris • Language About Language I compared mathematics to a “consensual hallucination”, like virtual reality, and I continue to believe that the aim is to get (consens…

Inquiry Into Inquiry

Signs Of Signs • 1
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2025/03/16/signs-of-signs-1-a/

Re: Michael Harris • Language About Language
https://mathematicswithoutapologies.wordpress.com/2015/05/23/language-about-language/

There is a language and a corresponding literature treating logic and mathematics as related species of communication and information gathering, namely, the pragmatic-semiotic tradition transmitted through the lifelong efforts of C.S. Peirce. It is by no means a dead language but it continues to fly beneath the radar of many trackers in logic and math today. Nevertheless, the resource remains for those who wish to look into it.

Resources —

Higher Order Sign Relations
https://oeis.org/wiki/Inquiry_Driven_Systems_%E2%80%A2_Part_12#Higher_Order_Sign_Relations

Survey of Pragmatic Semiotic Information
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2024/03/01/survey-of-pragmatic-semiotic-information-8/

Survey of Semiotics, Semiosis, Sign Relations
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2024/01/26/survey-of-semiotics-semiosis-sign-relations-5/

https://www.academia.edu/community/LpWxoO
https://www.researchgate.net/post/Signs_Of_Signs

#Peirce #Inquiry #Logic #Mathematics #Reflection
#Semiotics #SignRelations #HigherOrderSignRelations

Signs Of Signs • 1

Re: Michael Harris • Language About Language There is a language and a corresponding literature treating logic and mathematics as related species of communication and information gathering, na…

Inquiry Into Inquiry