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Conversation with Scott Durgin on Lots of Seemingly Random Stuff (4)

Scott Douglas Jacobsen
In-Sight Publishing, Fort Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Correspondence: Scott Douglas Jacobsen (Email: scott.jacobsen2025@gmail.com)

Received: November 11, 2024
Accepted: N/A
Published: January 15, 2025

Abstract

This interview delves into the multifaceted life and scholarly pursuits of Scott Durgin, a Senior RF Design Engineer, Physics Instructor, and dedicated archaeologist. Scott shares significant personal milestones, including his recent marriage and impending fatherhood, alongside his professional endeavors and intellectual interests. The conversation explores his excavation of a geometric necropolis, the publication of his work “Arch Euclid Secret,” and his ongoing project “The Pentachoron,” which integrates Borges’ literary techniques. Scott also discusses his deep engagement with ancient geometries, mythology, and calendrical cycles, highlighting the overarching theme of “Ars est Celare Artum” (Art is to conceal art). Additionally, he provides insights into his views on the current political climate in the United States, emphasizing concerns over democratic stability. This interview offers a comprehensive understanding of Scott Durgin’s dedication to uncovering hidden geometric and symbolic patterns in history and art, as well as his reflections on balancing personal life with extensive scholarly and professional commitments.

Keywords: Archaeology, Art Concealment, Cartography, Celtic Witchery, Chronometry, Defense Engineering, Excavation, Geodetic Markers, Geometry, Hieroglyphs, Metrology, Mythology, Necropolis, Public Speaking, Religious Cycles, RF Design, Solis Sacerdotibus, Symbolism, The Pentachoron

Introduction

Scott Douglas Jacobsen conducted an in-depth interview with Scott Durgin, a multifaceted professional balancing roles as a Senior RF Design Engineer, Physics Instructor, and passionate archaeologist. The interview, published on January 15, 2025, captures Scott Durgin’s recent personal developments, including his marriage and the anticipation of his first child, alongside his extensive intellectual and excavation projects. Scott Durgin elaborates on his scholarly work, particularly his publications “Arch Euclid Secret” and “The Pentachoron,” which explore the intricate relationships between geometry, mythology, and ancient calendrical systems. Additionally, he discusses his ambitious excavation of a geometric necropolis, highlighting the challenges and discoveries involved in uncovering ancient petroglyphs and geodetic markers. The conversation also touches upon his perspectives on the evolving political landscape in the United States, reflecting his concerns over democratic principles. This interview provides a comprehensive view of Scott Durgin’s dedication to integrating ancient knowledge with modern scientific and engineering practices, as well as his efforts to balance personal life with his professional and scholarly pursuits.

Main Text (Interview)

Interviewer: Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Interviewee: Scott Durgin

Section 1: Personal Life Updates

Jacobsen: Scott, Scott here, it’s been a bit since last session. I owe you an apology for delays. This will be another “YUGE” session, but this will be done in parts, bite-size. Thank you for your immense patience with me. My questions will be piecemeal and original in some while others will build on prior responses. Let’s start light, my friend, what is newest in your life since our last session, session 3?

Durgin: Marriage recently, wife now pregnant, new discoveries, new job.

Section 2: High-IQ Societies

Jacobsen: Any developments on the high-IQ societies and high-IQ communities front?

Durgin: No.

Jacobsen: Any developments on the Giga Society of Paul Cooijmans front?

Durgin: Nothing recent other than publishing my “Arch Euclid Secret” in Thoth. Only 10 chapters so far. Just a semi-treatise on Astronomy, Chronometry, Metrology and Mythology. Should be less than 50 chapters but it’s been slow going with 2 professional jobs and my excavation craziness.

Jacobsen: Any developments on the high-IQ societies and high-IQ communities front?

Durgin: No.

Jacobsen: What about the Glia Society?

Durgin: No.

Section 3: Political Climate in the United States

Jacobsen: How is the political situation in the United States?

Durgin: A little crazy right now.

Section 4: IQ Tests and Intellectual Pursuits

Jacobsen: Have you taken any new IQ tests?

Durgin: No.

Jacobsen: Have you picked up any new languages or intellectual pursuits since last talking?

Durgin: Still working on Egyptian, getting okay at hieroglyphs! Also learning cartography because I’m mapping the geometric necropolis near my neck of the woods.

Section 5: Recent Reading

Jacobsen: Any good books lately?

Durgin: Bunch:

• Got a copy of Leonardo’s geometric drawings: 3D versions of tetrahedron, cuboctahedron, etc., full page, color, in his pencil pretty cool.
• Jewish Princedom in feudal France by Zuckerman
• Sanchuniathan’s Phoenician history, edited/annotated by Cumberland (died in 1721) super interesting tome.
• Mythical origin of the Egyptian temple by Eve A Reymond, probably my favorite. Excellent thesis published in 1969.
• In last 2 years acquired and read about 48 new books, but can’t remember them now. Some more here:
  • Codex Rosae Crucis by Manly Hall
  • Book of Kells by Sullivan
  • Feynman Lectures on Gravitation
  • Geometry of Light by Leonhardt and Philbin
  • Myth and Symbol in ancient Egypt by Rundle Clark
  • Legends of the Egyptian gods by Budge
  • Time by Marie Louis von Franz

Section 6: Drama in Personal Life

Jacobsen: Any new drama in your life?

Durgin: Nothing crazy.

Section 7: Dominant Life Theme

Jacobsen: What is the biggest new theme in your life that I should keep in mind this time?

Durgin: Ars est Celare Artum. Absolutely 100% dominant theme, been chasing it and finding it, then being chased by it for 2 decades now. Resurrected this last October like a giant monster and mistress.

Section 8: Marriage Details

Jacobsen: How did you and the wife meet?

Durgin: Restaurant after online.

Jacobsen: How long were you two together before being married?

Durgin: 7 years, almost exact.

Jacobsen: Who proposed to whom?

Durgin: Me to her in our favorite restaurant.

Jacobsen: What was the style of the wedding?

Durgin: Celtic witchery: Outdoors under the pines with pagoda.

Jacobsen: Who had more input the ceremony and the officiation?

Durgin: She did nearly everything, I had only a few things in mind.

Jacobsen: Who did the officiation? What was the theme and the aesthetic, the food and the attire, and the location?

Durgin: Local female officiant. Uxbridge, Mass., Celtic themes. She arrived in a horse-drawn carriage with her father. Read each other personal vows. Champagne-colored tuxedo for me, white bridal gown for her, with an elegant crown on her head. Five bridesmaids in maroon gowns, my daughter was Best Man.

Section 9: Expectant Father Session

Jacobsen: When are you expecting the new child? You might want to talk to Matthew Scillitani or Rick Rosner, new dad and old dad, respectively. Any objection to a three-way session on expectant dad, new dad, and old dad?

Durgin: January; no objections.

Section 10: New Discoveries

Jacobsen: What are some of the new discoveries? That’ll be trail of gummy worms with an open can behind it.

Durgin: You mean gummy bears… tasty gummy BEARS. Admittedly the analogy disappears with the can.

Section 11: Historical Patterns and Cycles

Durgin: Backdrop: Patterns in history provide a great substrate for understanding how the future unfolds. This is especially true when those patterns can be identified with numbers, cycles. Religious adherents of the deep past used numeric cycles (planetary or astronomical orbits, eclipses mostly, so basic astrology) to record and plan their holidays, legends/stories and epochal events. The Roman empire absorbed these when conquering various cultures, and then the Holy Roman Empire inherited it. They continue to this day. The Ancient Olmecs, Toltecs and Mayans did this too, to a remarkable extent. One very important example of this I have discovered recently is the plan to co-opt the Jewish intent on rebuilding their “temple”, whose grand historical cycles (mythical really) form a nexus in 2034-2041. The Roman Catholic Church has been aware of this for centuries, so they are counting down the clock too, and helping to arrange its success by interfering in geopolitical affairs, as they have done for centuries.

From a practical standpoint, the Church had “court mathematicians” or historians, per se (probably Jesuits) who would constantly study these natural cycles and then plan their own future events so as to stamp them with an air of divine origin or authority. In most cases, the activity is to back-date mythical events (like births of gods, emperors, etc.) so as to fit a pattern. Been doing this for centuries. I’ve tracked it, learning a lot of basic history myself in the process. The many gaps I have filled in my knowledge often confirm and re-confirm; but sometimes they contradict, which is where the real learning takes place.

Just 2 examples of studies like this are Breaking the Mayan Code by Michael Coe and the book by Zuckerman referenced above.

Section 12: Solar System Cycle Discovery

Durgin: A sidebar to the above activity allowed me to uncover a potentially meaningful solar system cycle, related to the ancient Jewish (Hebrew) calendar makers and myth makers: 25925 earth years is 9,468,900 days (and about 3-1/2 extra). The nominal number is a multiple of 2338 days and 13527 days, where 2338 days is an orbital syzygy of Earth, Mars and Venus (whose relative positions repeat after such number), whereas the 13527 is an approximate eclipse cycle (+/- 1 or 2 days), not part of the Saros cycle. If one divides 9468900 by 360, the result is about 26303 days, which is 72 years and about 5 days (making up one degree). This much Hipparchus approximated in his lifetime as well, but the prevailing theories up till now fixate on a more rounded 26000 years or 25920 years or thereabouts. I have my own. NASA uses the 2338-day cycle to ensure our landers take off from Earth with the right timing to optimize the trip to Mars. I believe this cycle is related to the Chandler wobble, but have had no time or any puke grad students at my disposal to experiment. Example: about every 6.4 years it is known that the Chandler wobble experiences some sort of “reset”. A bit of literature on it, but no recollection right now. My suspicions are raised due to the fact the wobble has a ~433-day cycle. 54 cycles fit approximately into 10 syzygies of 2338 days (i.e., 433 x 54 = 23382 days).

Also interesting is the above ratio 9468900/360 is very close to 71499/e, where e is the natural logarithm (2.71828…), a number close to 2.72, naturally.

Section 13: Geometric Solomon’s Seal

Durgin: Gigantic Solomon’s seal laid out in plan form, deep in the woods; formed at vertices by granite boulders, 273 ft apart (about). Pentagram overlaid such that its vertex is coincident with center of top crossbar (one of six legs of the hexagram). Hexagram and pentagram are tilted to the NW by 15 degrees, such that the internal 45-45-90 triangle has sides (approx 193 ft) aligned N-S and E-W. This 15-degree delta can only occur at certain earth locations, so it’s possible the intent was an enormous geodetic marker. This internal triangle I found first (about 6 years ago). Took more than a decade of repeated measurements to finally work most of it out, but the years of uncertainty, confusion and doubt were all worth it, due to the intensity of clarity that takes hold (things falling together in rapid succession) when the solution is approached, and then all the mistakes I made in the past are understood and I slap my forehead.

Section 14: Current Jobs

Jacobsen: What is the new job, or are the current jobs?

Durgin: Large defense contractor, functionally I am a Senior RF Design Engineer. I also double as a Physics Instructor and a marketing strategist.

Section 15: Arch Euclid Secret

Jacobsen: What is “Arch Euclid Secret”? Anything else to be included outside of Astronomy, Chronometry, Metrology and Mythology?

Durgin: No, that’s enough. Actually, I am still working on The Pentachoron, which is a fugue-like literary creation of mine. I’m attempting to fuse all 4 of Borges’ literary devices together: (a) The Voyage through Time, (b) the Story within the Story, (c) the Contamination of Reality by the Dream, and (d) the Double. I have had intimate knowledge of each of these in my life, especially FUCKING ALL OF THEM. So a labyrinth I get trapped in is an apt metaphor, especially if I must create a labyrinth in order to enter the big one; then be trapped for aeons.

I can’t easily summarize Arch Euclid Secret other than to say the central and primary theme is Geometry, which is the most archaic form of knowledge we know of (predates language, symbols, letters, orthography, etc.), preserved by ancient priests (Egyptian, Mayan, Babylonian), eventually discovered and preserved by modern-day Freemasons. One Secret (I believe known to Euclid) is in plain sight to those who study geometry and its history: latent in art, language, mythology (scripture); also used in metrology, chronometry, and astronomical observations. The relationship crosses over to religious treasures and artifacts: Noah’s Ark, Enoch’s pillars, Enoch’s altar, the Emerald tablet, Solomon’s Temple, The Ark of the Covenant, the grail, etc., which all have very exhaustive and precise geometric detail in their references.

This secret is just one example of a geometric relationship (which ties together many of the above) and is that between the Egyptian royal cubit (“RC” which I take to be 1.72 feet or 20.64 inches) versus √3 = 1.7320508…. An equilateral triangle is the best form to illustrate this, where the sides are about 71-1/2 feet, then its height is ~36 RC. The relation is precise if the sides are 72×1.72/√3 = 71.499057336… So close to 71.5 ft that no practical distinction could be made even today, excepting laser measurement or maybe thin film processes.

Inclusion of the number 68 ties together the equilateral triangle with the pentagram. That is, 68 feet is 25 RC + 25 feet = total 25 “megalithic yards” (“MY” = 2.72 feet). Coincidentally, if a pentagram has sides of ~71.5 ft, then its height (which is the height of its circumscribed pentagon) is very near 68 feet, especially if the 71.499… metric is used: 72 x 1.72/√3 x (cosine 18) = 67.999644… Again, close enough that the ancients would not have detected a difference. Both these numbers (71.5 or 72, and 68) appear to have been used on a few obelisks (the height of Cleopatra’s needles, for example). What I like about this is the fusion of ancient metrology: MY, RD, and feet. Jefferson worked on this, so did Newton a century before him.

I have rational reasons for believing Euclid was well aware of this obvious little pearl of a relation, and have thus commandeered a Greek letter for its definition: Ξ (def) = 72×1.72/√3

This also dovetails back into the orbital cycles and calendric chicanery previously mentioned, but not enough space here to cover.

Section 16: Excavation Projects and Petroglyphs

Jacobsen: What have you been excavating? Any related to petroglyphs?

Durgin: Yes, the above #3. There are dozens of petroglyphs there; four of them are:

• Gigantic head of what appears to be a Griffin (used to think was an owl)
• Serpent
• Turtle
• Head of a crane, or sandpiper/bird. I call it Saiph.

The griffin head is about a 10-ton stone, the serpent consists of 4 segments of granite stones laid out in a 34-35 ft length (each stone about 8 feet x 4 ft, so these are ~5 tons each). Its head bears an additional carving of the griffin’s claw and just above the serpent’s mouth, one of the talons in the claw is pressing down on a small stone, intended to represent a pearl or perhaps gemstone. The serpent is about 300 ft south of the griffin and extends from north to south, tail to head. There is a geometric arrangement of all of these that I am still working out, very difficult and time-consuming. Over a 60-acre spread in deep woods, completely covered in granite stones. So the “Find the pattern among chaos” is an apt symbol here. Perhaps even the labyrinth.

Saiph is only visible after March, due to the necessary sun’s elevation to cast a shadow on the stone (otherwise viewing is impossible). Brilliant carving, as it is in bas-relief too. Finding it was a magic moment, as with a few others not mentioned here.

Section 17: Political Views on Dictatorship

Jacobsen: What kind of “a little crazy right now”?

Durgin: What is crazy is that Trump’s followers have no problem with a dictatorship. Never thought I would see this kind of anti-American idiocy in my lifetime. And when liberals (or even rational conservatives for that matter) force their little heads around to observe the constitution’s guarantee on individual freedoms, they shout “dictator!” It’s formidably amazing how ignorant these people are and how close we are to losing the Republic. There is hope, though…

Section 18: Curiosity as Motivation

Jacobsen: What seems to have spurred all this new activity?

Durgin: My unholy curiosity.

Section 19: Egyptian Hieroglyphs Characterization

Jacobsen: What is an accurate way in which to characterize Egyptian hieroglyphs as a language?

Durgin: Solis Sacerdotibus: Only for the initiated.

Section 20: Geometric Necropolis

Jacobsen: What is the geometric necropolis?

Durgin: “I learned the secret among the bones of the dead.”

Still working everything out, see above #3. It may be a ritual-only necropolis (no dead bodies), but this is a multi-generation construction, so I don’t know for sure yet. Learning how to lift 2000-3000 pound stones out of a 14-foot deep hole I excavated; also excavated a 40 ft long tunnel (connected to the hole at its bottom) through near solid granite; took me 4 months to go 20 feet, and this slightly below the water table, so imagine laying supine on ledge deep below ground with 6-10 ft of stone and a further 6 ft of earth above you, dragging yourself by your arms across the ledge and through about 6-9” of cold water; all the while the ledge ABOVE you is scraping your backside as you move forward in the dark…). All this in a remote wooded area with hand tools. Insanity. But, regarding its construction, seems like a lot of work for ritual. Perhaps they were creating a mythical ancestry due to the fact they were exiles. That is…maybe their parents, grandparents, etc., were all buried back home, so in order to create the psychological illusion/impression they were still with them, they built a pseudo-cemetery. This does tie in to Reymond’s thesis tangentially.

Section 21: Da Vinci’s Drawings

Jacobsen: What are da Vinci’s drawings telling you?

Durgin: That he also knew.

Section 22: Jewish Princedom

Jacobsen: What is Jewish princedom?

Durgin: A 1972 study about the 8th/9th century activity in France, which paralleled the rise and reign of Charlemagne. His family apparently merged with that of a Jewish Prince (“Nazir”) from Babylonia who was brought over (by King Pepin, Charlemagne’s father) to rule the Jewish communities in Narbonne (against the Pope’s wishes). Narbonne was part of Septimania in southern France (not far from Rennes le Chateau), Carcassonne, Rennes le Bains, etc.), and it is here that Pepin and his sons established a Jewish Princedom, according to Zuckerman. The use of calendar cycles on the part of the Jews was covered here, for they were believing a Jewish Kingdom could be established in time, thus their Messiah would show. Many Christians (leaders) were spitting and farting in their chairs, of course; just beside themselves to death, especially Pope Stephen.

Section 23: Phoenician History Connection

Jacobsen: How does the Phoenician history tie into this new work?

Durgin: It doesn’t too much. One is ancient, the other Medieval. They both make reference to calendar cycles, of sorts, but Cumberland was so clouded and poisoned in his judgment by his attempt to show Sanchuniathon as “heathen,” versus “proper Christian,” that it’s difficult to unveil the nuggets and disentangle the actual facts. Religion poisons everything, as Hitchens said.

Section 24: Reymond’s Conclusion

Jacobsen: What is Reymond’s conclusion?

Durgin: My brutal summary does not do 10% justice to her work, which is brilliant: The Ancient Egyptian Temple is entirely mythical (at its beginning), except for the pattern first established. All future versions of the temple are simply copies and manifestations of the original. This is similar to the concept of an architectural plan or engineering drawing/blueprint representing all future buildings constructed from it, but the original is deeply ensconced in myth. In the same way, all the Hebrew treasures (including the temple) are conceptual only. Those who choose to build one are simply manifesting a particular version of it (“true copies”).

This dovetails into my Arch-Euclid Secret in the sense that Geometry on paper is perfect. Geometry in concept is perfect (like the grail, or ark of the covenant), but real practical geometry is not and never can be. There are no perfectly straight lines, perfectly parallel lines, perfect circles, etc., except in concept. Euclid knew this, of course.

The Egyptians used natural elements to inform their myth: Hawks, reeds, serpents, catastrophes, islands, fire, turtles, etc., as well as precise geometry. Much like the South Americans. Typically, they used √2, √3, and √5 (emphasis on two meanings of the term “root”). Interestingly, I believe they were inspired by the constellation of Orion, because a simple rendition of the stars (i.e., flattened onto a map) come close: From Saiph to Rigel to Bellatrix forms a very near 1-2-√3 triangle (30-60-90 degrees). A pseudo-rectangular version of the constellation may have been used as a design for a flat stone gnomon in the deep past.

Section 25: Dominant Theme Connection

Jacobsen: How is “Ars est Celare Artum” or art is to conceal art connecting everything as a “dominant theme”?

Durgin: Geometry hidden in Art (like Poussin, Teniers, da Vinci, etc.), Geometry hidden in calendar cycles and mythologies (art imitating life and vice versa), my excavation project: same. The geometric stone necropolis is the ultimate example of true art concealing art within a chaotic landscape, and further concealing sweet spots within the geometry. I have attempted to conceal art within my own work as well. Inspiration. The theme which preceded this was deeply ingrained in me from over 25 years ago: Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.

Discussion

This interview with Scott Durgin provides a deep exploration of his multifaceted life, seamlessly integrating personal milestones with extensive professional and scholarly endeavors. Scott’s recent marriage and the anticipation of his first child mark significant personal developments, showcasing his ability to balance intimate relationships with demanding career roles. Professionally, he serves as a Senior RF Design Engineer at a large defense contractor, while also fulfilling responsibilities as a Physics Instructor and a marketing strategist. This combination highlights his versatility and commitment to both technical and educational fields.

A substantial portion of the discussion centers around Scott’s scholarly pursuits, particularly his work on “Arch Euclid Secret” and his ongoing project “The Pentachoron.” These projects reflect his profound interest in geometry, mythology, and the intersection of ancient knowledge with modern scientific principles. The overarching theme of “Ars est Celare Artum” (Art is to conceal art) underscores his belief in the hidden complexities within art and ancient structures, emphasizing the concealed geometric and symbolic patterns that have influenced historical and contemporary contexts.

Scott’s excavation of a geometric necropolis reveals his dedication to uncovering and understanding ancient geometrical arrangements and petroglyphs. This project not only demonstrates his hands-on approach to archaeology but also his commitment to preserving and interpreting historical artifacts. His ability to manage such an ambitious excavation alongside his professional duties speaks to his exceptional time management and unwavering passion for uncovering historical truths.

Additionally, Scott’s extensive reading list and his efforts to learn Egyptian hieroglyphs and cartography illustrate his relentless pursuit of knowledge and intellectual growth. His engagement with a diverse array of subjects, from ancient civilizations to modern scientific theories, showcases his interdisciplinary approach to understanding the world.

The interview also delves into Scott’s perspectives on the current political climate in the United States, where he expresses concerns over democratic stability and the rise of anti-democratic sentiments. His critical views on both political extremes reflect a deep-seated commitment to maintaining democratic principles and ethical responsibility, aligning with his broader humanistic values.

Overall, the interview highlights Scott Durgin’s dedication to integrating ancient knowledge with modern scientific and engineering practices. It underscores his ability to navigate the complexities of balancing personal life with demanding scholarly and professional commitments, painting a portrait of a highly dedicated and intellectually curious individual.

Methods

The interviewer, Scott Douglas Jacobsen, conducted a semi-structured interview with Scott Durgin to facilitate an in-depth conversation. With Scott Durgin’s consent, the interview was held either online or in person, depending on logistical arrangements. The session was recorded to ensure accuracy and later transcribed verbatim. The transcript was then edited for clarity and organization, maintaining the integrity of Scott Durgin’s responses while presenting them in a coherent and accessible format.

Data Availability

No datasets were generated or analyzed during the current article. All interview content remains the intellectual property of the interviewer and interviewee.

References

(No external academic sources were cited for this interview.)

Journal & Article Details

• Publisher: In-Sight Publishing
• Publisher Founding: March 1, 2014
• Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com
• Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada
• Journal: In-Sight: Interviews
• Journal Founding: August 2, 2012
• Frequency: Four Times Per Year
• Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed
• Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access
• Fees: None (Free)
• Volume Numbering: 13
• Issue Numbering: 2
• Section: A
• Theme Type: Idea
• Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”
• Theme Part: 33
• Formal Sub-Theme: None
• Individual Publication Date: January 15, 2025
• Issue Publication Date: April 1, 2025
• Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen
• Word Count: 3,271
• Image Credits: Photo by Simon Berger on Unsplash
• ISSN (International Standard Serial Number): 2369-6885

Acknowledgements

The author thanks Scott Durgin for his time and willingness to participate in this interview.

Author Contributions

S.D.J. conceived and conducted the interview, transcribed and edited the conversation, and prepared the manuscript.

Competing Interests

The author declares no competing interests.

License & Copyright

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012–Present.

Unauthorized use or duplication of material without express permission from Scott Douglas Jacobsen is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links must use full credit to Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing with direction to the original content.

Supplementary Information

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Note on Formatting

This layout follows an adapted Nature research-article structure, tailored for an interview format. Instead of Methods, Results, and Discussion, we present Interview transcripts and a concluding Discussion. This design helps maintain scholarly rigor while accommodating narrative content.

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