@chockenberry

Drawing/Render list

https://parkplanning.nps.gov/document.cfm?parkID=186&projectID=136973&documentID=151576

@knowprose @nileane

Correct

So it seems to me EU are willing to trade away a private product/LLM environment in order to break vendor lock for its own sake even at the cost of increased malware/privacy invasion for EU citizens

It reads to me they pursue economic objectives at the cost of privacy

@knowprose @nileane

I agree with your main point that it seems DMA wants more unfettered LLMs on devices

For me the Apple-controlled-only LLM approach feels safe enough

On the general question…would I want DMA controlling Apple’s design choices? No, for one reason

Say Apple decides to pull back on their own data access or cloud access, I think EU would block Apple from reducing access for other LLM. LLMs would sue to EU to prevent Apple forcing them to change

@Netzblockierer @eduo @Linux @nileane @noybeu @wbs_legal @EUCommission @signalapp @Mer__edith

I don’t think I would accept a “Trusting users” framing for something as dangerous as this levels of access to users’ iPhone data. Again malware/scams. Users need to trust their devices, too

China forcing Apple to open up user data an ugly thing, for sure

@Netzblockierer @eduo @Linux @nileane @wbs_legal @EUCommission @noybeu

I don’t want to engage flippantly, so walk me through this

You think DMA plus GDPR plus Privacy Intent mean iPhones should have no built in AI that connects to the cloud? (Presumably users could choose to install such AI)

So an iPhone where a user would need to install Siri AI?

@fallenhitokiri @nileane

Besides, Apple’s own product development of AI in flux

Technical and market response driven changes to their LLM product still coming. They may decide to pull back data access even for themselves. They may decide they need to or want to cut out Private Compute for technical or public response reasons.

At what point does Apple decide to “freeze” their product for EU? A pull back of “data access” likely triggers EU challenges

@knowprose @nileane

By self control of an LLM it seems that means not publishing to the App Store

But even then I image “entitlements” control access to certain data at compile time. Not a developer, so I don’t know if a “non-published” in some form might meet your definition

@eduo @piotrek @monocularvision @nileane @stroughtonsmith

Sounds complicated. Maybe it takes 18 months for LLM integration scenarios as Apple suggests

After that integration work, seems only then does it get presented to EU for “approval”. I wonder how long for that

And after “approval” EU reserves the right of continuous review and may require further changes in response to complaints by other companies. Worst part, imho

@Netzblockierer @eduo @Linux @nileane @noybeu @wbs_legal @EUCommission

Self-hosting?

I admit I missed that

Apple allowing self hosted AI with no access to network at all seems reasonable. Must enforce no network access to make sense

I hope they do that down the road

@Netzblockierer @eduo @Linux @nileane @noybeu @wbs_legal @EUCommission

I think I explained my intent

It opens the door to any random LLM, and that opens the doors to scams/malware

Forcing Open the door to random LLMs no different than forcing open the door to malware

On privacy, EU explicitly chooses economic competition over privacy guardrails

Cannot argue this enhances privacy