@Patricia I know I'm still describing a gulf between our experiences, but in your bespoke coat analogy, the training I give teammates on kanban & flow, we teach folks (including a similar hands on activity) to be the bespoke coat people.

I'm still worried that you're describing a version of kanban or flow that is different than what I understand or have learned.

@Patricia Heard, it sounds like you've had negative experiences with both kanban and flow (I haven't experienced the team topologies book, personally) ...

Some of the things you called out as opposing it (costs of sharing software being low, need to make something good with customers being critical), I have understood as key parts of what kanban is supporting, but I don't want to lean too far here into Mastodon Contrarian, and I'm definitely sorry you've had those experiences!