Richard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ladygaga although you've got #PizzaGate trending on #gnusocialde, please stop posting #SpiritCooking related images. Those are #AbsolutelyDisgusting.

For people who are interested in the child trafficking and pedophile Activities of the #DemocraticParty and #JohnPodesta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiLNkIiyKuU
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck pizzagate is a 4chan hoax you idiot
Show threadRichard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ashoka Is there any evidence that it's actually hoax? The arguments for #PizzaGate are overwhelming.

I've seen one video of a guy who claims to has "debunked" PizzaGate just by saying it's a CIA setup. So basically he makes out of a conspiracy an even larger conspiracy to chill people down.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck the lack of evidence is the greatest sign, the fact that no victims or insiders are coming forward, which usually happens with these scandals. if you want a true pedophilia scandal to latch onto, try anonymous' #OpDeatheaters.
It's been debunked by Snopes, the NYT and the police.
first and loudest proponents are anti-dems, and it all started with a tweet from an alt-right account that got popular on 4chan.
Show threadRichard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ashoka You mean this #NewYorkTimes article: https://gnusocial.de/url/3341933 ? It's a bunch of Non-arguments gathered with Alefantis' claims that he not a pedophile. I can't read any counter evidence any other than "he received many death threats, he must be a poor guy".
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck excuse me, you must debunk all the debunkings not just one.
Show threadRichard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ashoka I don't know the article of Snopes, but I would be happy if you post a link.

To the police statement: the head of the justice department is the main investor of those venues. So it might be a lie.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck "might" be, those are life-destroying accusations. give me stuff to chew on or begone. your teacher would laugh at these so-called arguments of your.
Show threadRichard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ashoka I didn't state that I am right. I stated that the evidence for it are overwhelming (see Youtube videos). I welcome any statement that it clearly debunks the entire discussion about #PizzaGate other than "yea, he received death threats".

>life-destroying auccusations

Then in future we better never accuse anyone every again, because lifes might get destroyed!
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck misrepresenting arguments gets you nowhere. youtube videos are not a reliable source, also, they are a secondary source. what are the sources of the makers of those videos?
where are the victims?
why wouldn't even conservative foxnews goafter it?
Show threadRichard Paul Bäck
@ashoka >misrepresenting arguments gets you nowhere.
What do you mean?

Why aren't #Youtube videos reliable for you? The things stated in the video I've posted are sound to me.

>Where are the victims?
Killed and buried?

#FoxNews would kill itself if they go for it. There is not sufficient evidence to actually indict someone. Therefore everyone would label them as a conspiracy theorists and will cost them probably thousands of viewers. If that's not enough for you: why wasn't FoxNews totally on the #TrumpTrains too?
Dec 9, 2016 at 2:17pmWeb
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016

@richardbaeck interpreting "accusations of pedophilia are life destroying, so you better have good evidence" as "we should not accuse anybody ever".

i already said why i don't trust youtube videos.

lack of evidence and conspiracy theories have never stopped fox news.
so you admit there is not enough evidence?

"buried and killed" lel where? or did you just assume that? who was killed and buried, gimme names.

Show threadRichard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ashoka That's not interpreting that's just my argument on it.

You stated that #Youtube videos have "no accountability,a hotbed of propaganda and biased editing". I don't disagree fully on that with you as I stated, the posted video looks sound to me.

Don't know if "lack of evidence and conspiracy theories have never stopped fox news" is true, I don't watch #FoxNews all the time.

>so you admit there is not enough evidence?
Of course! But I certainly think that the evidence, that is already there, is very interesting and upsetting.

>or did you just assume that?
Of course I assumed it. Otherwise there would have been an indictment, wouldn't it?
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016

@richardbaeck yeah that's the problem, you are just assuming things.
I looked at part o the video.
what part of it was supposed to be convincing?
the symbols for pedophiles looking a bit like the logos of pizza laces that aren't even comet ping pong?
the girl lovers symbol doesn't even look like the pizza place symbol other than that both are hearts.

this is Illuminati Pyramids all over again.
this is poem interpretation level of "solid evidence"

this symbology crap is ridiculous.

Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck it encapsulates every problem with conspiracies, recognizing tiny patterns.
the bookstore is so ridiculous as well.
the symbol isn't even turning in the right direction.
also the ping pong pizza place logo doesn't even look like a butterfly, it's literally two bats crossed.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck and i hope you realize that politicians in DC will have been to almost every restaurant remotely close to capitol hill because they usually hold fundraisers there.
I ain't got much time to waster any more, so please tell me what part of the video is the most damning part.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck give me a time stamp and i'll look at the video.
Show threadRichard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ashoka https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiLNkIiyKuU#t=7m Andrew Kline

Weird images on Alefantis' #Instagram account https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiLNkIiyKuU#t=9m
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck "James Alifantis means I Love Kids in french"
bruuuuuuuh
really?
really?!
Show threadRichard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ashoka The symbol claim for the ping pong place is really bad, that's true. But two places next to each other having such logos and actually change the logos AFTER #PizzaGate got trending. That's really suspicious. Why changing them? Why taking down the #Instagram images? If this all is such a conspiracy and none of it is true it wouldn't make sense to actually feed the fire by "admitting" that they did something wrong.

Again, I am not convinced that this is all true, but it seems that it might be.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck for the logo's the answer might be that a bunch of people are connecting them to pedophilia.
if you knew that, would you keep it? i doubt it. it's like when somebody realizes his logo has a swastika hidden in there. it's bad publicity.
pizzabesta logo is the only one that looks remotely similar to thepedophile logo. because both are triangles that spiral inwards.
Show threadRichard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ashoka You can see it either way. We will never know.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck these images are causing the people a lot of trouble.
it is natural to take them down. no matter what you do in that situation, it will be outrageous to your accuserers.
keep em up and you are a bold monster.
take em down and you are trying to hide something.
Show threadRichard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ashoka You can see it either way, but why putting them on in the first place? I totally agree that it's bad publicity. We will never know if it was admitting it or stopping it.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck and out of this position of ignorance people had to suffer harassment and shootings and reputations have been sullied.
people spreading these conspiracies are at fault for that. they recklessly cause grief and behave absolutely immoral and all they have to show for it a accusation built on vague image association.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck "we can't know but there might be" is unacceptable for this exact reason. Real people are getting psychologically harmed this way.
it is absolutely irresponsible if one shares this.
it's put up or shut up.
Show threadRichard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ashoka Last time I checked #freespeech was not limited in the US. So calling me irresponsible for sharing this is somehow inappropriate. I don't call people up to go there and shoot people. In fact I have already discouraged that. However looking into this story is perfectly fine.

I agree that those harassments are serious and should be prosecuted (don't know how the law in the US handles death threats). Therefore I hope that the guy who did the shooting will end up in jail and that those other ones who sent the death threats will be brought to justice too.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck dude, irresponsible means just that.
you are giving this story legitimacy where it has none. as a result of people like you, others believe it might be real. they don't think critically and have an appropriate level of outrage. you are part of that by spreading it. that can't be denied.
you don't want that, but that is the effect you and others like you are causing.
and that can be criticized.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck your speech is not under attack.
your ideas are being criticized for being faulty.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016

@richardbaeck this isn't a jab at you personally, but you at the group.
but you can only address it when you speak to every single one.
so don't take it personally, you are just one among many and I'd tell the same thing to everyone of them.

anybody reasonable can see pizzagate is bs, and those who spread it just in case are in fact firing up the crazies.

Show threadRichard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ashoka Suggesting that I should control my speech for the sake of responsibility is somewhat limiting #freespeech. But that's a philosophical question. I get your point. I just have another view on it.

Therefore I really appreciate our conversation! Talking about it and "debunking" it or bringing up counter arguments (like you did) is quite good. I personally didn't know that people actually lied. Neither did I know that there was a shooting. So thanks for making up my mind!
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016

@richardbaeck no. suggesting you might adjust your behaviour, that it would be ethical, is not limiting your speech.
here's actual impediment of freespeech:
- blocking your internet access
- shutting down your publication
- imprisonment
- blacklisting
- prohibiting you from saying something

not on the list:
- if you say that out loud, it'll cause a problem.

that would make any criticism an impediment.
that would shut down any criticism, cause impediments are bad.
that's a paradox.

Show threadRichard Paul BäckDec 9, 2016
@ashoka "ethical" depends on what ethical is. If I think that #PizzaGate might actually be real, not talking about it because it cause someone to shoot up a place is like Juncker saying "if the situation is stressful a politician has to lie".

So you can call me nihilist for that but I rather want information to be spread. If it is actually wrong information it can be corrected anytime. If it neither can be proven nor refuted it will at least draw people's attention to it and let them watch out if something like that really occurs.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck that attitude to reality is absolutely horrifying.
nothing can be truly proven or disproven, there is always room for doubt.
you want information spread but you can't tell me if it's true or not.
correcting your story later doesn't help the victims of the misconception.
people already pay attention, see operation deatheaters. that's an actual pedophilia-ring in politics that's being unearthed.
it has actual witnesses and shit.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck there is no alternative view on this: pizzagate has no reasonable foundation.
every piece of evidence can be refuted and the origins are questionable.
you make it sound like you don't completely believe it yet you spread it.
either you are lying to me, or you are a callous moron.
after spending an evening debating with you i am sure of this.
do not reply to me anymore, not even with regrets of this convo ending this way, not even with offers for further discussion.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck what's the point if you still peddle that stuff without proper evidence instead of finding it, make somebody mad so that they go out of their way to harass people.
this amicable agreement may make you feel good for yourself (or not, i don't know), but the underlying issues still exist.
here's one last tip: don't act on what you don't know for sure. you will end up hurting somebody.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck and the thing with the registered agent is also extremely tangential. has this man ever been suspected of pedophilia, child trafficking or the likes? no.
he did literally nothing suspicious.
he actually fights that what he is being accused of.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck the evidence so far:
podesta, who works for clinton, has been to that place to raise money for elections.
two other unrelated places have logos of hearts and triangles, there is a bookstore that has an ampersand, too.
one of them has a registered agent that fights child trafficking.
the owner of one place has weird pictures. so? none of them are child porn.
you can see how ridiculous this looks. this is wild conjecture and meanwhile some dude shot the place up.
Show threadAshokaDec 9, 2016
@richardbaeck people could have died as a consequence of something that has only flimsy hints when you squint.
and it's being propagated on 4chan and reddit.
i retract the statement that this is a hoax. this is a conspiracy theory.