Mastodawn

It kind of seems like if a city wants to have good bike infrastructure, there should be a mandated policy to city planners that everything should just be done the way Amsterdam does it, and only diverge from that if there's a documented really really good reason.

Going on more long urban bike rides this year in my own city, which has actually developed pretty decent infra in recent years, I'm just kind of struck by how inconsistent even the good parts are from one area to another. Like they're constantly reinventing the wheel with every new stretch of bike lane or intersection.

Which isn't just confusing for cyclists. I imagine it's pretty confusing for pedestrians and drivers who have to interact with it too.

DavidM_yeg 4d ago

Yeah we need consistent policy. I feel there are several ‘legacy issues’ embedded deep in the admin side of city hall - people who worked up the ranks ages ago, have negative opinions about all this new stuff they’re ‘supposed’ to do, make a half effort but don’t really engage and half expect it to fail. If you don’t really value it, you won’t grasp the core concepts that make it hold together.

<imho … based on little more than intuition and listening to the news>

Darcy R 🇨🇦4d ago

@DavidM_yeg @megmac Some of that old thinking, and even newer planners do it, is that SUVs come first and bike infrastructure has to be crammed into the leftover scraps of space. It also cannot delay drivers or hurt their feelings.

Also, I really think there’s a saboteur who makes something about every bike project crappy.

EllenIn Edmonton 4d ago

@geodarcy @DavidM_yeg @megmac
But there are some excellent stretches, now! I could go run errands easily and safely this week. Wayfinding has improved a LOT in recent years, with excellent signage and bike detectors at most intersections. For some reason, U of A doesn't seem willing to play along, and it's a mess to get in and out of the university.
#YegBike #BikeTooter

DavidM_yeg 4d ago

@EllenInEdmonton @geodarcy @megmac

A stark contrast to the crumbly incomplete concrete lumps and flexiposts dropped into my neighbourhood.

Based on the rate of attrition, flexiposts must have some kind of powerful bumper magnet in them.

Amelia Bellamy-Royds

@DavidM_yeg The wonderful thing about flexiposts on movable concrete dividers is that they're as quick to install as paint. But that means the drivers don't have months of cursing at construction to get used to the idea that there's going to be a bike lane there!

And even in neighbourhoods where there has been construction & careful design, there is still the inconsistency issue @megmac mentioned. Like 106 St in Old Strathcona switching from separated bike lanes to bikes on extra-wide sidewalks, then a mix of bike lane on one side of the street & wide sidewalk on the other. And then you turn onto the two-way bike lane on 83rd Ave.

@EllenInEdmonton @geodarcy

DavidM_yeg 4d ago

@AmeliasBrain @megmac @geodarcy @EllenInEdmonton

Yes, at some point we need to move beyond experimentation and interative design with a revoving set of contractors and set some solid clear parameters, policy and expectations about this stuff. We’re not blazing a new trail here, we should be able to learn from others. At some point consistent and good is better than inconsistent and variable but with a shining perfect block somewhere. 🤷‍♂️

Darcy R 🇨🇦4d ago

@DavidM_yeg @AmeliasBrain @megmac @EllenInEdmonton The City has all the policies already. Some policies could be better but, from my experience, admin gets away with ignoring the policies making exceptions. They always have an excuse of why they cannot follow the policy. The usual excuse is because drivers’ feelings might get hurt

DavidM_yeg 4d ago

cf hide-bound obstructionist numpties practically or ideologically unwilling or unable to change

@EllenInEdmonton @megmac @AmeliasBrain

dragonfrog 4d ago

@EllenInEdmonton @geodarcy @DavidM_yeg @megmac
In older (read: 2+ years old) infrastructure, the bike detectors seem to be based on metal detector loops in the ground. They can be finicky it seems - a heavy old clunker with steel rims gets detected reliably, but the less metal the bike is made of, the less reliably it's detected.

(...)

dragonfrog 4d ago

@EllenInEdmonton @geodarcy @DavidM_yeg @megmac
... but in the stuff they've built in the last year or two, they're using cameras with some kind of image recognition. And they're really unreliable. I'd say they recognize me as a human on a bicycle less than half the time.

DavidM_yeg 4d ago

@megmac @EllenInEdmonton @geodarcy @dragonfrog

Yeah, that seems like a poor choice. To my mind, the fact that it’s needed is an admission of failure… ultimately, we should design infrastructure that protects people without the need for any system like that (old or new)

dragonfrog 4d ago

@DavidM_yeg @megmac @EllenInEdmonton @geodarcy

I guess? I mean, I wouldn't say a car-activated traffic light that is always green unless a car approaches from the side street, or a pedestrian-button activated traffic light, is necessarily an admission of failure - unless the existence of a traffic light itself at an intersection is an admission of failure.

A traffic light that
- isn't on a timer but needs activating
- can't be activated by everyone
... that's a failure for sure

DavidM_yeg 4d ago

Not exclusively, no; …but usually.
That bikes travelling E-W along 83 Ave appear to give priority to N-S vehicles and need a dedicated traffic signal to remain safe is definitely an infrastructure failure given the context. Maybe it’s the best that can be done *for now* but its mostly a band-aid to a deeper deficit.

@geodarcy @EllenInEdmonton @megmac

Hamish Buchanan 4d ago

I get this feeling about a lot of municipal bureaucracies everywhere: the old guard really resent that their old ways are no longer seen as good enough and and will only minimally and huffily comply.

@DavidM_yeg @megmac

DavidM_yeg 4d ago

@megmac @hamishb

Certain parts of municipal bureaucracies have a disproportionate number of people who “worked their way up”. And while I have lots of respect for people with direct experience and expertise and we should respect real-world experience, often these folks are the worst examples of hide-bound inflexibility; practically, conceptually, and sometimes ideologically unwilling or unable to change.

DavidM_yeg 4d ago

@megmac @hamishb

Then yoke them with dreamers who *don’t* have an appropriate practical grounding - all theory butterflies with the sticking power of a gnat, always looking for the next best new idea - imposed on them by a city council looking for meaningful change and frustrated that they aren’t seeing it; and you’ll get something that looks a lot like the situation we’re in now, I suspect.

Hamish Buchanan 4d ago

It probably is more concentrated in public bureaucracies but "but we've always done it this way" mentality is deeply embedded in the Canadian psyche. The "trendy management theory of the month" brigade don't help either. Such a conundrum.

It's no wonder that so many talented people steer clear of it.

@DavidM_yeg @megmac

@DavidM_yeg it‘s not only that some are hidebound and inflexible, there a lot of municipal staff who have a real fear that if they push too many creative ideas, they will lose their jobs because reactionary councillors will demand it so that they won’t anger the worst and loudesr of their constituents. As a result, many staff people only focus on “what we have always done” because that is all that is possible. 1/2.
@megmac @hamishb

@DavidM_yeg progressives need to start speaking up about what we want because the “conservatives” have been very successful in pushing their agendas (and they are very organized about it). The “squeakiest wheels” really do get the grease. 2/2 @megmac @hamishb

Paul Reinheimer 4d ago

@megmac There's a road near me that over the course of one suburban block handles the bike lane like 4 different ways. It's absolutely wild.

It's like someone presented a planner with a list of options, and they picked "all of the above".