Glyph1d ago
I am really starting to loathe the “sovereignty” framing of open source sustainability, or data privacy, or whatever. It would be good to have a better tech community less beholden to the interests of multinational corporations, more globally distributed, etc, but when you have a problem and you think “I know what would make this better. Intense German, French, and English nationalism” now you have like… at least five problems
Show threadbmaxv

@glyph That is not what the word means to me.

To me it means my own sovereignty, personal, individual over my hard and software. My own self. Autonomy. And the same for every other individual.

And that's how and why I am going to continue to use it. I will not surrender that word to anyone. Kind of the point of it.

Jun 16 at 5:44amWeb
Show threadGlyph1d ago
@bmaxv technically speaking “sovereignty” and “autonomy” are synonymous in some contexts, those contexts all carry the implication of collective authority, and in particular independent nation-states, where the individual is only referred to as things like “self-sovereign” by analogy to a state. The word “sovereign” derives from the latin “super” meaning above, over. The sovereign is the supreme authority above all. you can use the word how you like but it will not be widely understood that way
Show threadbmaxv1d ago

@glyph I'm respectfully asking you to add that meaning to your... brain space?

I hate being the ackshully guy, please try to see the situational comedy over the cringy nature of doing it, but it's actually in the dictionary:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sovereignty

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sovereign

It's a pretty important concept to me, that's why I am pushing back on this so much.

Definition of SOVEREIGNTY

Definition of 'sovereignty' by Merriam-Webster

Show threadGlyph1d ago
@bmaxv yes I read that to confirm my understanding before replying. I even preemptively conceded that “autonomy” is technically in its set of definitions. Look holistically at the set of definitions and usages, not just the fact that it’s there
Show threadcatch1d ago

@glyph @bmaxv also "autonomy" is right there as a word with a lot less negative connotations.

On the one hand, autonomist Marxists.

On the other hand, Frank Furedi.

Show threadGlyph1d ago
@catch56 @bmaxv I don’t know who Frank Furedi is yet but this thread makes me feel like I am going to find out soon and also that I am gonna be SUPER mad about it
Show threadbmaxv1d ago

@glyph @catch56

I am looking at it holistically.

Do you think the fact that nation states happen to reuse the same concept, taints it and that taint implying some necessity for self censorship to prevent association?

It's very funny that we're arguing over a word meaning "being free of external influence", you insisting I shouldn't use it btw. 😂

Show threadGlyph1d ago
@bmaxv @catch56 look I was just letting you know that you have unusual usage here; nation states have not “re-used” the concept, it’s a concept that was, etymologically speaking, created to describe their relationship among one another. But live your best life, use it that way if you want, perhaps you exist in a sub-community that is evolving language in this direction, I am not your boss
Show threadbmaxv1d ago

@glyph

Yes and I was letting you know that that usage is not unusual, it's the reason so many use it in the current context and discussion of adopting more FOSS.

It's not a sub community. As I said, my usage is literally in the dictionary.

No hard feelings to you either though. I respect that you read the word that way, it's just not going to make me stop using it my way.

Show threadcatch1d ago

@glyph @bmaxv this is outdated, it doesn't cover his protégés joining the Brexit Party (now Reform) then going into the House of Lords and Boris Johnson's administration, and it also doesn't cover Furedi running an institute funded by Orban, but it covers everything up until those points pretty well.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v32/n13/jenny-turner/who-are-they

Jenny Turner · Who Are They? The Institute of Ideas

London Review of Books
Show threadGlyph1d ago
@catch56 @bmaxv yeah this is exactly the kind of piece of shit that I thought might be an issue
Show threadmirabilos🐈‍⬛1d ago
@bmaxv @glyph same but it’s not how the big drivers see it (of course)
Show threadNils Goroll 🕊️1d ago

@bmaxv @glyph yes, that

To everybody else I apologize for being German and using the word as I was taught:

Unter dem Begriff Souveränität (französischsouveraineté, aus mittellateinisch supernus „darüber befindlich“, „überlegen“) versteht man in der Rechtswissenschaft die Fähigkeit einer juristischen Person zu ausschließlicher rechtlicher Selbstbestimmung.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souver%C3%A4nit%C3%A4t

Souveränität – Wikipedia

Show threadNils Goroll 🕊️1d ago

@bmaxv @glyph … Diese Selbstbestimmungsfähigkeit wird durch Eigenständigkeit und Unabhängigkeit des Rechtssubjektes gekennzeichnet und grenzt sich so vom Zustand der Fremdbestimmung ab.

what follows is the definition for use in politics. I am not a politician.

Show threadAmin Girasol46m ago

@bmaxv @glyph I applaud your stance but the meaning of the term #digitalsovereignty has already shifted, and in very sinister ways:

https://chaos.social/@stk/116711144233398451

(Sorry for the link; either my client or my instance doesn't support quote toots.)

stefan (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image Das hier hab ich z.B. neulich einigermassen fassungslos auf einer Veranstaltung fotografiert – sorry fuer das sehr verwackelte Bild deswegen. „Digitale Souveraenitaet“ hiess dort, dass man weiterhin genAI-Slop macht. Vielleicht europaeisches genAI-Slop, keine Ahnung. Und die generierten Enkel stehen gemeinsam Spalier mit Europa-Schilden und im Hintergrund wehende Flaggen und man weiss nicht, ob die da jetzt DSGVO-Kontrolle machen oder Pushbacks am Mittelmeer. Ich find das wirklich schlimm.

chaos.social